Stuart Robert (Fadden, Liberal Party, Assistant Minister for Defence) Share this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Melbourne. The government will reject the amendments by the Greens because, for a start, it does not actually pass the common sense test. The common sense test simply says that an individual working at Coles who thinks they have got a hacking incident and reports it to their management, the member for Melbourne believes that ASIO may come screaming down to look at their wife's Facebook account.

Warrants pertaining to matters covered by the first two amendments have to be security matters and security matters are defined in the ASIO Act. They deal with the likes of foreign intelligence collection. Unless someone is collecting intelligence on someone who is working at Coles, I suggest the issue of everyone having to be concerned that ASIO may come swooping in to look at their household computers or tablets is completely and utterly unwarranted. ASIO need to show the Attorney-General why they need a warrant to go after various computing devices or networks because of a relevant security matter, not because someone thinks their Facebook account has been hacked.

Let us just get some common sense across this argument. The Greens are intentionally trying to muddy the waters to suit their own political point, but attorneys-general on both sides of politics have been very sound and very serious individuals and they take their responsibilities extraordinarily seriously. ASIO must demonstrate why the warrant they are seeking covers a security matter. We have dealt with that issue and I think we are all happy, as a parliament, that the Attorney-General will be providing warrants to ASIO for substantial matters.

If I could come to the device issue: the Greens are proposing to fix in legislation the total number of devices. Let me put my 'master's degree in IT' hat on. I get a little about IT and I get a little about computing; I did a master's degree in networking, so I have a bit of substance when it comes to how computing, networking and devices work. The Greens are seeking to impose an arbitrary, artificial and completely and utterly unworkable limitation that would not only frustrate ASIO but which does not exist in the real world we live in.

We talk about devices and networks. I think about my home: I run an 802.11n network that has 25 concurrent mobile devices connected. With mum and dad and three kids, we have 22 internet-enabled devices in our house, which comprises a very small 802.11n network. TVs talk to the internet. My fridge talks to the internet. We are moving to the system of systems, the internet of internets, where all devices are connected. You are suggesting, the member for Melbourne, that if ASIO came to my home they could interrogate my fridge, my devices and my TV but as soon as they hit device number 20—because I have 22 concurrent devices—they could not hit one of my hard drives or my WDTV, where all my movies are stored. Under your amendment, ASIO cannot even deal with my home running a simple network. I accept that my fridge is, possibly, a threat to national security; I fear it may be. But my home has more than 20 connected devices and we have not even entered the internet of internets. We have not even entered the world where my car is going to speak to my computing network, or where my freezer or fridge will automatically go online to Coles or Woolies and order the milk and the bread and the things I want. We are in a rapidly evolving networked world but the Greens, dragging behind them their Luddite policy, want to limit our law enforcement to 20 devices. That would not even cover my humble home and the devices I have.

Can we please apply a modicum of common sense? If the Attorney-General allows a warrant on a security matter that deals with national security—espionage or other such issues of gravity—that covers multiple devices, tablets, computers, limited networks, IP gateways and VPNs among other things, let us give the serious professionals the tools they need. Let us not limit them because the Greens do not quite understand how even a basic home uses internet networking.

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