Linda Burney (Barton, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Hansard source

The Minister for Human Services' robo-debt program is hurting honest Australians. The government cannot keep ignoring this matter. Rather than focusing on their jobs, they are focused on their own internal division.

It has been 40 days since I first wrote to the Minister for Human Services, alerting him to increasing public concern about the robo-debt system and asking him to suspend the program until it could be fixed. I am not alone. The leader of the Labor Party and many Labor Party members have called for this action, as have the crossbenchers in the other place, the independents in this place and a range of community organisations like ACOSS and People With Disability. I waited well over 21 days for a response to that call. That is the amount of time the Turnbull government gives current and former Centrelink clients to respond to false debt notices. The minister did not ask for an extension. I am glad he had a relaxing break over Christmas, because thousands of Australians did not. They were busy trying to find six years of old pay slips. They were worried and they were distressed and they lost Christmas.

When the minister finally did respond to my letter, he continued to claim that there was nothing wrong with the system, despite the concerns everyone in this chamber will have received from their constituents—including those on that side of the House. If you want to know whether the system is working, check your electorate office emails but do not bother taking up the talking points sent out to you last week. They will not help and they will not fool the Australian public.

This program is hurting our communities. It is causing distress and anxiety, but at every turn this minister has denied any issue at all. The stories are numerous. I have heard many firsthand—in the seat of Herbert with Cathy O'Toole; in the seat of Franklin with Julie Collins, Brian Mitchell and Carol Brown. Some of those stories are severe, and the state of Tasmania has been particularly targeted. When Michael Griffin was told he owed over $3,000—which he knew was not true—the minister said the system was working 'as intended'. Mr Griffin's debt was later revised down to $50. The minister said there were no issues at all. When Leslie Roxborough was issued with a debt notice for over $6,000, she assumed it was legitimate and she started to pay. She was devastated that she may have mistakenly claimed such a large sum that she was not entitled to receive. When she appealed, Leslie found that her debt had been inflated. She has now been told that her debt has been reduced to just $4,000, but she is still waiting for some written confirmation. Had this issue never been raised in the media, she would have just paid the full sum. How are you going to pay those people back, Minister?

The minister still said the program was working 'as well as could be expected'. Yesterday I asked the minister about Anne Foley, who had her pension cut after Centrelink wrongly accused her of owing thousands, and we had the minister stand up today and blame Centrelink staff, taking no responsibility himself—blame the bureaucrats and take no responsibility himself. His response yesterday was: 'Call the 1800 number.' Has anyone tried that recently? I do not have a few hours to spare! That is the best those opposite can do and it is not nearly good enough.

There are too many stories like this. Every member of this place will have received similar emails or calls to their electorate offices. Those opposite should hang their heads in shame for not speaking up for the people who have put their trust in them. Innocent people are being asked to go through a laborious appeals process, to find pay slips that are over six years, to contact employers that might not exist, or to prove that they were seriously ill. We now know that they might not even owe a debt. In fact, we know that the minister and his department knew long before this system started sending out 20,000 letters a week that thousands would be wrongly be accused—at least 4,000 letters a week to innocent people. Until recently, the minister was still sending those letters to addresses that were six years old. He could not even guarantee that the people still lived there. Those who never received a first letter from Centrelink automatically had debts raised against them. Some of them did not even know about this issue until a debt collector turned up on their doorstep.

These are not signs of a system working well. The Minister for Social Services himself, Minister Tudge's senior, at first told us that the false-positive rate for this program was one in five. That is 20 per cent. The government has now changed its mind. It is now saying that this is not true, but it will not tell us what the real number is. We do know that 40 per cent of those who raised their issues with the minister, or publicly, were later found to owe nothing at all. Even more, people like Leslie Roxborough owe far less than they were originally accused of. The minister will not tell us how many people have had their debts reduced or how many are disputing the debt or having it reviewed. Those opposite have no answers; all they have is smear and personal attack.

People in Barton and our electorates do not think harassing age pensioners is fair. I bet they do not think so in Aston, Wentworth or New England either. Those opposite do nothing to make sure multinational companies pay their fair share of taxes but devote their energy to harassing those on age or disability support pension for debts that they may not owe. Many of those accused of owing a debt are now teachers or working in our emergency departments across the country.

If people make mistakes declaring their income, of course that should be corrected. That is obvious. When people do the wrong thing, they should be punished. Nobody in this place disagrees with that principle, but that is not what is at hand here. But that does not mean we should assume that everyone is guilty, as this government is doing.

At every turn, those opposite have insisted that this program is working well. When hundreds of people come forward to tell their stories, the Turnbull government says they are all liars and frauds. When Paul Shetler, the Prime Minister's former IT guru, says the system is self-evidently flawed, so bad that if it were a private company it would be out of business, those opposite say he does not know what he is talking about. When Senator Abetz in the other place and the Liberal Premier of Tasmania both say the system is failing, those opposite are silent. All of you on the other side, who are no doubt about to read from notes prepared by the minister, should bear this in mind. People are watching and listening. Many of the people this system targets are those who received a payment as students, when they were sick or when they were briefly unemployed. Many are now working, they are paying taxes and they vote.

Let me be clear: Labor does not hold the people who work at Centrelink responsible for this mess. I hold you, Minister, and this government responsible for this mess, for your intransigence in not admitting there is a problem, for your intransigence for not saying, 'We've made a mistake.' I have spoken to some of the workers who are distressed across this country. They have been instructed not to assist even when mistakes have been made. You can ignore them while you stand in this place but you will not be able to ignore them when the upcoming Senate inquiry visits your state or your electorate. Let us be honest: you thought Australians would not care about Centrelink recipients. You are wrong. Australians care about what is fair. The robo-debt debacle does not just prove that those opposite are poor administrators who will not take advice from their public servants; they are now blaming the bureaucrats. It does not simply prove that those opposite have their priorities all wrong and it does not only prove that the minister is failing; it proves that those opposite are completely out of touch with the community.

The Turnbull government cannot understand why people are upset when they see those of us in this place being given the benefit of the doubt, while those in the community do not get that same benefit of the doubt and are being treated as guilty until proven innocent. In the eyes of those opposite, we are all either 'lifters' or 'leaners', and anyone who has received a Centrelink payment in the last six years is a leaner. Age pensioners are not leaners. Those caring for relatives are not leaners. Former students who received Austudy are not leaners. Those with disability who receive the DSP are not leaners. That is callous, it is a massive failure and it speaks to the complete lack of empathy on the minister's part. Accusing people of committing fraud for collecting payments they do not deserve is a serious accusation. The minister must be confident of that before smearing the name of honest people. It is time for those opposite to pull their heads out of the sand and suspend this system. Labor does not want to see individuals being overpaid or getting away with fraud, but that will never be an excuse for treating our most vulnerable like criminals. Good governments listen when they are told about problems. Brave governments admit mistakes. Empathy is the lifeblood of politics. That is all the opposition is asking for.

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