Ed Husic (Chifley, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary to the Shadow Treasurer) Share this | Hansard source

The member for Wills rightly points that out. Please work with me, Member for Wills—I will get to a valid point at some point. It has been interesting to listen to them beat their chests talking about this world first that they are doing and world's best practice. What they have been able to achieve is world's best practice in stuffing up. They cannot do anything right on that side. This bill is beset with problems. It is not like they were not warned. In 2009 the Productivity Commission said, 'This is a good idea in principle, but you have to work out the way to do it.' Along the way, when they made this announcement, the Treasurer, who says that he is all pro-innovation, was refusing to meet with the companies that have to implement this, having to be dragged to meetings to consult with companies that will have to bring to life the measure we are debating today, and refused to meet with them and work with them on it.

I have heard a lot on that side talking about how they are pro small business and how this is important to small business. I have gone through my own journey on this issue. I have always been concerned, as someone who is pro-consumer, about the fact that online purchasing gave consumers more power. For years we have seen price discrimination in this country work to the detriment of consumers. Consumers can go online and compare products that are being put on offer on retail here in Australia compared to overseas, and they have been ripped off. The internet gave them one mechanism, a small mechanism, to be able to say: 'Do you know what? I deserve to be able to get the product I want at the price I want, instead of seeing all the mark-ups.'

In saying that, let me make the point that I do not for one moment think that it was small businesses leading the charge on this. These were big companies who operate across jurisdictions charging differently for the same product in one jurisdiction from another, and then using geoblocking to stop a consumer from being able to buy from a US website instead of the Australian website. This is when our dollar was as strong as anything. People are going to have their disagreements and concerns about that, and I certainly appreciate the impact that a high dollar has on retailers in Australian business and in agriculture, as the minister rightly points out. But for consumers it strengthened their purchasing power. At that point in time they were trying to work out how it was that the same product cost a different amount in different markets. It was the same thing. The internet has been able to provide that difference.

Obviously, what was also driving some of the differential was the application of taxation on the purchase of those products. While I was certainly pro-consumer, as I said, and wanted to see consumers being able to access products at cheaper prices, and this experience of itself allowed for the injection of competition in the Australian retail market as well, to make them a lot more responsive to consumer demands, the reality is that we cannot have a system where you get a cheaper price simply because the taxation is not being applied on the final sale. It is important that we do harmonise that. I think the Australian public and consumers get that. They obviously want to be able to get their bargain and get a product at a cheaper price, but they also know that they are not going to cut their nose off to spite their face, insofar as if we are not charging the proper tax rate, then obviously we are all losing out as taxpayers. We are not just consumers—we are taxpayers as well.

Making this change is important in that respect. But in making the change, as well as what is being put forward, a lot of those companies that I mentioned earlier had been seeking to have their input early on with the Treasurer, who basically shoved the earplugs into his ears and was refusing to listen to any reason or argument about how implementation would work. So we get to this stage. This is the stage where the opposition has put forward the amendment as advocated by the shadow Treasurer to have a look at the implementation and see how it is done.

Having said that, I understand the concerns of some players within the tech space, who are saying this will be difficult, but I do not necessarily subscribe to them 100 per cent. I am not saying they are saying the wrong thing; I am just saying, 'You can find a solution to the issue of how you factor in taxation within the final sales price on a website that is a marketplace.' From my perspective, they do it at the moment. If you have various state sales taxes that exist in the United States and you have an online marketplace that is already charging, they are already factoring in the tax on the final sale anyway. The tech players in this space that have online marketplaces, with my deepest respect and great admiration for many of them, know this and can factor this in. This is not too hard, but we have to find a way to do it.

These online marketplaces will become the way in which a lot of consumers interact. A lot has been made about the entry of Amazon. A lot of people have been worried about how this player, as big as it is, may impact on business in Australia. Yes, there will be impacts for sure, and obviously we want to make sure that our competition laws are adequately safeguarding competition. In the case of some these online marketplaces like Amazon, where they even provide for rival sellers to sell product on their marketplace, this is a good thing. I am not so much interested in Amazon. They will shake things up, and I think that is good. It is going to be important. The bigger thing for those on the other side, who are going on about how they are pro small business, is: why aren't you helping small business digitise their operations?

It has been recognised time and time again. I do not know how many studies have pointed out that digital transformation within Australian SMEs is going at a slow pace and is short-changing small business. The more they move onto digital platforms, the greater number of customers they can reach and the more efficient their operations can be. It can provide for greater longer-term growth. It is something that they need to do, and the tools now are not as complex as what they once were. A lot of people are extending assistance to small businesses, but government can also play a role in working with small business, digitising their operations and embracing digital platforms. Why do we not see the same level of advocacy?

It is easy to run the line, 'We're small business,' but translate it into something meaningful. This legislation, as we have rightly pointed out, has a stack of holes in it. The detail needs to be worked through, and the Treasurer can take the lion's share of responsibility for the stuff-up in the way this has all been shaped up, but I do note the presence of the Minister for Small Business. From time to time, when planets align, he and I manage to get on, sometimes.

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