Emma Husar (Lindsay, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Hansard source

It's always good to follow the hardworking member for Herbert, my friend Cathy O'Toole, who is always standing up on behalf of her constituents and indeed all the people right around this country who will be adversely affected by this bill, the Social Services Legislation Amendment (Cashless Debit Card Trial Expansion) Bill 2018, which seeks to extend the cashless debit card trial to regions in Bundaberg and Hervey Bay, forcing anybody under 36 to become a trial participant. We oppose this bill. Labor knows that the majority of income support recipients are more than capable of managing their own income.

This morning, I was over in the Federation Chamber, and I was listening to the member for Dunkley, a member on the opposite side of the House, talk about how he received income support when he was a university student. It's a great shame that the member for Dunkley isn't here, because I would be able to ask him how he would feel if, as a recipient of a welfare payment, he were told how, when and on what he was able to spend his own money on.

Communities are not homogenous; they are inherently unique, with their own customs and circumstances. It is an absolute disgrace that this government is willing to paint with one swift brush all of the regional communities where it wants to roll this out. The government refuses to acknowledge not only the importance of consulting on a community-by-community basis and allowing communities to have some decision-making but also the need to support community-driven initiatives. But, again, is it really a surprise that this government, the government of the rich and plenty, wishes to take a top-down approach to the cashless debit card? I think not.

The current limitations placed on the cashless welfare card trials are crucial to ensuring that this government does not overstep its bounds with rural and regional communities. As we've heard from the member for Herbert, there are some significant factors in the breaches of a person's human rights when it comes to these trials and the cashless debit card itself. Extending the trial to potentially include around 6,700 more people in Bundaberg and Hervey Bay without the appropriate consultations is blatantly irresponsible. It brings the number of participants to over 15,000.

Key groups from the Bundaberg region have been ignored. Ignoring the wishes of the Bundaberg community presented to the Senate inquiry is blatantly irresponsible. It's arrogant and it is out of touch—all the key themes of this government. It is clearer than crystal that this Turnbull government has mismanaged and bungled this entire process, and it is the people of the Bundaberg and Hervey Bay regions that will pay the price. Unlike in the East Kimberley and Ceduna trials, the lack of consultation in the Goldfields and Hervey Bay areas is symptomatic of this government, which doesn't listen, doesn't communicate and doesn't implement its promises. The lack of action in the East Kimberley is in stark contrast to the hope that the trial of the card was thought to deliver. Mothers hoped that their families would see support programs and training to help break the treacherous cycle that is disadvantage, but this never materialised. Labor will only consider supporting the introduction of a new trial site if this Liberal government can do its job properly and consult the communities it is planning on affecting. This government needs to show that it is willing to listen to communities and establish an agreed definition of consent.

The trial of the cashless debit card has been viewed through a prism of suspicion and mistrust. It takes a great leap of faith for communities to commit to this implementation, and the government ought to respect that. That's why we on this side of the House have consulted closely with people in Ceduna and East Kimberley, listening to their views widely, discretely and with humility and compassion. We support genuine, intuitive, progressive policies that acknowledge the problems and opportunities that are unique to remote and discrete communities. We are talking about people who have suffered greatly already at the hands of government, their representatives and others. Yet the original problem of systemic inequality and domestic and other violence remains for the very reason we were told these trials were needed. This is hardly encouraging for potential participants in Hervey Bay and Goldfields areas targeted by this legislation.

This government has paid $1.6 million to ORIMA Research to provide a weak and poor evaluation of the effectiveness of the existing trials in Ceduna and the East Kimberley. The results were inconclusive at best and were torn apart by leading academics like Janet Hunt, who stated that people interviewed for the evaluation may have told interviewers that they drank less than before the trial began but that such recall over a year is not likely to be reliable. Importantly, her paper also notes the fact that participants were required to identify themselves prior to participation. This raises serious questions about how they would respond and, in some cases, understand the questions and implications of their answers. It would be surprising if someone with a drug problem who has been identified by the interviewer would suddenly open up and discuss their volume of usage. Only 17 per cent of the trial participants reported that they felt their children's lives were better as a result of the trial. The ORIMA research is not something the government should be basing its policy decision-making on. It is, at best, a poor quality assessment and, at worst, a demonstration of this government's negligence.

These problems vary from community to community, from country to country and from state to state. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. We need to develop the levers that provide access to support where and when they are suitable and programs that address alcohol and drug related problems, as well as policies that seek to address the systemic inequality that has placed these communities in the vulnerable positions they find themselves in. These communities do not need empty promises or rhetoric and half-baked attempts that are more likely to hinder than to help them. They need to be heard and consulted with. We need to listen to communities to find out what assistance they require—and in their voices—and tailor programs to suit specific locations. One size does not fit all. This isn't a scarf, it's not a pair of gloves and it's not a beanie, Minister. This is not appropriate.

To 15 March this year, the trials have cost around $24 million for those two sites. The cost per head is well over $10,000. I do not profess to sit in the Treasury coffers or with those boffins who spend our money for us, but I would assume that that $10,000 per head could have been better directed to things that all actually went to the heart and core of addressing some of the issues that these individuals find themselves in. We have no idea what this minister intends to charge taxpayers to roll out the cashless debit card in Bundaberg and Hervey Bay, and I don't know how the minister expects us to debate this legislation without this crucial information.

This is symptomatic of the government's problematic approach to the way they run this country, which we saw this morning. Turnbull's mob doesn't want this parliament to be informed before making decisions, let alone the average Australian. We saw that on trial here this morning. The government needs to be honest with this parliament and tell us how much the trials at Bundaberg and Hervey Bay, and in the Goldfields in WA, will cost. The fact that they haven't already is an absolute disgrace. The government has spent around $24 million, as I said, on current trials alone, with $7.9 million paid to Indue to manage the payment system and $1.6 million for useless and unreliable research. They have mismanaged Australian taxpayers' money and they have damaged lives in the process.

The 2016 census tells us that Australia's Indigenous population has grown by 17.4 per cent since 2011. That's an estimated 3.3 per cent of our total population, and, it is estimated, just slightly under 800,000 people, who are concerned about the implications of a rollout of the cashless debit card. We need to be mindful of the implications of an extension of these trials and the psychological impact they have on every Indigenous person, regardless of where they live. It is imperative that we take the actions of previous governments into account when we are discussing serious amendments and extensions such as the one before the House today. It is also important to note that these populations are also centred in the major cities, particularly in electorates like mine in Lindsay. These are people who have suffered from and been hurt by our collective actions, however well-intended they may have been. People need to be reassured of our commitment to the implementation of effective education, rehabilitation and training programs. They are essential to ensuring that the inequality, suspicion and historical dislocation are addressed in ways that are consultative, well resourced, well researched and effectively delivered.

While we know that most people have the ability to self-manage their incomes, we also understand that some people do need a hand. Extending the rollout of the cashless debit card without appropriate consultation and research is not an effective way of giving people a hand. It also clearly demonstrates blatant negligence and the contempt that the Turnbull government has for some of our most vulnerable Australian communities and people.

Labor opposes this bill because there is insufficient credible evidence to support the establishment of further trials. Who would have thought that you'd need evidence to make an informed decision! In this case, the government may have been a bit confused. Proper consultation means working together with communities to ensure they get the programs they need and desire. Proper consultation means not lecturing communities—you are consulting—but making a commitment to listening, discussing, acknowledging and acting on their aspirations.

Systemic disadvantage cannot be solved by income management alone. This government needs to provide additional support to communities which elect to participate in those trials. That support needs to be targeted and it needs to be based on research and evidence. It is time for this government to sit down and listen to what these vulnerable communities are saying. Thank you.

See this speech in context