Andrew Wilkie (Clark, Independent) Share this | Hansard source

Good morning. In essence, I will support the government's Interactive Gambling Amendment (Credit and Other Measures) Bill 2023, and I will go further: I applaud the government for acting on this. It is self-evident that people should not be allowed to gamble with money they don't have. This is a very positive step forward. I am sure it is evidence based, and I am confident that it will diminish the incidence of gambling addiction in this country, so good on the government.

It's so important to be introducing reforms such as these. The Australian Institute of Family Studies reports that 46 per cent of Australians who gamble are at low, medium or high risk of gambling addiction. I'll say that figure again, because that is just a breathtaking figure: the Australian Institute of Family Studies finds that 46 per cent of gamblers are at risk of gambling addiction. Very relevant to today's bill, the institute also finds that online problem gambling is three times more prevalent now than what I'll call terrestrial gambling—poker machines, horses, keno, lotteries and so on. This is the big problem and challenge for us for the future: to rein in gambling addiction among those who are going online—and, frankly, among those who have gambling devices. I've got one here. I've got a gambling device—my phone—sitting on the table in front of me. I suspect you, Deputy Speaker, have got a gambling device sitting on your table. Everyone in this chamber probably has a gambling device in their pocket or in their hand or in their bag. So we've got to do something, and I think this bill goes some considerable way to reining in gambling addiction.

The scale of what we're dealing with must not be underestimated. Australians lose something like $25 billion a year gambling. That's billions, not millions. That's twenty-five thousand million dollars a year. Sure, a lot of that money is lost by people that can afford it, and that's fine. I'm not anti gambling; I'm actually pro harm minimisation. I'll buy a lottery ticket. I'll join a sweepstake on Melbourne Cup day. There's nothing wrong with people who can afford to lose a little bit of money having a bit of fun and losing money. The problem is, though, when people are losing more than they can afford.

The number of people with a gambling addiction in this country is measured in the tens of thousands—in the tens of thousands, in a country as small as ours! Every one of those gambling addicts is a human tragedy. I've already referred to figures like 46 per cent, and I've referred to learned bodies like the Institute of Family Studies, and I've referred to $25 billion, but all of these facts and figures and reports make it a bit abstract, actually. We all need to remember that every gambling addict is a human tragedy. Every gambling addict is a mum, a dad, a brother, a sister, a son, a daughter, a friend, a work colleague or someone we pass walking down the street. There might even be someone in this room, for all we know, who is battling with a gambling addiction. Those people are often losing their jobs. They're often losing their relationships and their families. They're losing their houses, their health, and sometimes, sadly, they're losing their lives.

It is very hard to get an accurate figure of the number of people who suicide each year on account of their gambling addiction, but good research points to something north of 400 people a year. In other words, more than one person a day in this country takes their life, suicides, on account of their gambling addiction. This is a human tragedy. This is exactly the sort of thing that this parliament should be dealing with. This is exactly the sort of bill that this parliament should be dealing with. I lament the fact that in the 13 years I've been in parliament, it has taken a long time to get traction with the issue of gambling reform, but we are finally getting traction. That gives me great comfort, and I think it gives the community great comfort, that we are now starting to focus on this. This is good.

I suspect every member and senator could come into the House of Representatives or the Senate and recount stories that they have heard from their own constituents. I'm still, to this day, affected by one constituent, a woman, I think in her 30s, she had a couple of young children—they were about this high. Unbeknownst to her partner, she had been taking the housekeeping money and the money for the power bill and had been blowing the lot on gambling. Unbeknownst to her partner, she had been dealing with Aurora Energy in Tasmania, repeatedly, trying to keep the power on. Aurora, to their credit, had put together repayment plan after repayment plan after repayment plan. Ultimately, Aurora said they could do no more. Ultimately, one of the not-for-profit organisations who was trying to help this unfortunate soul said that they couldn't just keep giving that person money, because that person was losing it gambling. The power was cut off. So here we had a young family in a Hobart winter with no power for the stove, no power for the heating, no power for hot water, not even power for the lights. I just hope that family were able to pick themselves up from rock bottom and get on with their lives. This is not an unusual story. I make the point again: I think many people, probably most members and senators, have heard stories like that. It is quite unfathomable to my mind that it has taken so long to get traction in this House, but we are getting traction.

This reform actually complements other reforms. The previous speaker, the member for Dunkley, was talking about BetStop. I think that's a fabulous reform. That will allow voluntary online self-exclusion. It's across the whole country for online gamblers, it allows for a minimum of three months of self-exclusion, up to a lifetime, free of charge. That's a really good reform because even a gambling addict, in their lucid moments, will make sensible decisions. People don't get their pension cheque and go down to the local pub or the local pokies venue with the intention of losing their whole pension. They get their pension and they think: 'This fortnight it's different. This fortnight I'm not going to buckle to my gambling addiction.' Or they'll say: 'I'm not going to pull out my gambling device and blow the lot today. Today is different.' In those lucid moments they make sensible decisions. If you have something like BetStop, which we now have rolling out, in those lucid moments they will set sensible limits on BetStop. BetStop will reduce gambling addiction, just like the government's bill to ban the use of credit cards will reduce gambling addiction. That will save lives. That will save families like the one in Hobart that I referred to. I'm also pleased to say that the industry has thought to improve their messaging in their advertising. It's only a small step, a very small step, but all those small steps add up. I think it's a positive thing.

In the poker machine sphere, we've had some really significant developments in recent years. Being from Tasmania as well, Deputy Speaker Archer, you would be well aware that Tasmania is the first jurisdiction to roll out a mandatory cashless poker machine pre-commitment card. Everyone in Tasmania will soon need to get hold of a card and load up the card with cash in some way, and when they play on the poker machines they'll put the card in. There'll be no cash at the machine. That card will monitor their use of poker machines and their losses, and it will enforce limits on that poker machine player. So, in Tasmania, poker machine players will be limited to $100 a day, $500 a month and $5,000 a year. Although the players will be able to vary the daily and monthly limits, if they want to vary the annual $5,000 limit, they will have to make the case to a government body that they can afford to lose more than $5,000. That is a tremendous turn of events. It is nation leading, and I applaud the current Tasmanian state government for that.

I also note that, in Victoria, there have recently been announcements that they will introduce mandatory carded play, with a maximum $100 load-up at any one time, and trading hour restrictions as well. It's unclear what the time line is in Victoria for these changes. In Tasmania, it's more clear. They've talked about having the cashless card in Tasmania by the end of next year. So we are heading in the right direction, as we should. I know we're talking about online gambling, but I am taking this opportunity to talk about poker machines because of those really positive developments, particularly in Tasmania, in recent times.

This move towards cashless and card based play is actually entirely consistent with the New South Wales Crime Commission's report from October last year, where they found that, in New South Wales, literally billions of dollars of what they called 'dirty money' is going through New South Wales poker machines. It has well and truly opened up the possibility of gambling in that jurisdiction and with those devices being used for money laundering.

But there's still much to do. I would ask the government to consider improving their bill. I note that the bill is deficient because it doesn't apply to all forms of gambling. It really only applies to online and sports betting. That still leaves unaddressed the use of credit for things like lotteries and keno. I know these other forms of gambling have a much lower rate of gambling addiction, but it is still people gambling with money they don't have. These other forms of gambling are still creating some gambling addicts. So I would hope that the government would consider expanding the scope of the bill to go beyond just online and sports betting.

I also note that the bill doesn't apply to all forms of credit. For example, the bill will still allow someone to use their debit card with an online gambling company, but that debit card could be linked, for example, to a line of credit or perhaps a redraw on their home loan. I think there is—I know there is—an opportunity for the government to tighten this bill up further to make sure that all ways in which a gambler might access credit are in fact reined in, not just with the obvious ban on the use of a credit card as such.

I'm pleased the member for Dunkley was the speaker just before me. She referred to gambling advertising. That's an area where the government really needs to act. The government really needs to have a very strong and effective response to the member for Dunkley's committee. She's the Chair of the Standing Committee on Social Policy and Legal Affairs, and they've made some strong recommendations about gambling advertising. I think that's the next big thing for this government to address. Frankly, the community has had—I don't know if this is an unparliamentary word—a gutful of gambling advertising. We're all sick of trying to watch the footy and being bombarded with ads—maybe not during the game but certainly on either side of the game. It's ruining our enjoyment of, particularly, sporting events.

It's also very harmful for children. Gambling advertising is banned during G-rated TV times, but there's a carve-out. Bizarrely, there's an exemption that means it's allowed around sporting events. So on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, when children are watching their heroes, associated with their heroes is gambling advertising. This has got to be influencing children. So we've got to ban gambling advertising. It's as simple as that.

I note that the Australian Communications and Media Authority did some research and found in one recent year that there was over one million gambling ads aired on Australian free-to-air TV and radio. That's an unfathomable figure—a million ads on free-to-air TV and radio around Australia in just one year! That's got to be having an influence, particularly on our young people, particularly on that 46 per cent of Australians who gamble, who are judged by the Institute of Family Studies to be at risk for problem gambling. Of course, there's also the other reform that would be easily made—in fact, industry insiders tell me it is technically easy and cheap for Australian online-gambling providers to be linked in real time so that when you hit your daily limit with one company, you don't just swipe to the next company and run up your daily limit a second time. There is no good reason why these apps can't be linked.

I am heartened by this progress. I applaud the government for this bill. I will support the bill. I'll take this opportunity to congratulate the countless advocates for reform in this country who for years have battled away. They're starting to see dividends, and I hope that they get comfort from that.

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