Darren Chester (Gippsland, National Party, Shadow Minister for Regional Education) Share this | Hansard source

It gives me great pleasure to follow the member for Fraser and the member for Fisher and their contributions in the last half hour on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill. I think they demonstrate to the Australian public just how much support there is in this place for the National Disability Insurance Scheme and show a recognition that there are some challenges after the scheme has been in place for more than a decade to make sure we get the right footings going forward.

Like the member for Fraser, I think it's important to, at the outset, acknowledge how we got to where we are today and what existed, or didn't exist, before the NDIS came into play. He was right to acknowledge that previously the system of support for people with disabilities in this country was fragmented. It was underfunded. It was almost impossible to navigate. Basically, it was a lottery of post codes whether you received the support you needed. People lived in fear of (1) having a child with a disability who needed help and (2) what would happen to their child or their loved one if they passed away. The care simply wasn't there. They had a fear and risk of being in poverty as a direct result of having a family member or loved one with serious disability.

We got to this point more than 10 years ago now where we implemented a scheme and system which, I think, is revolutionary and is a reform that this parliament should be proud of and will stand the test of history. Australians themselves should be proud of the NDIS. It is a world-leading scheme. As I said at the outset, it has enjoyed bipartisan support throughout its history. The debate today is not about whether it should exist; the debate today is about how we make sure it's sustainable for the longer term and how we make sure it continues to keep that promise to Australian families.

I remember conversations with the member for Maribyrnong way back in 2008-09. We were both new members of parliament. He was a parliamentary secretary for disability at the time. He was working very closely with the member for Jagajaga, Jenny Macklin, on this scheme, and I took no convincing when the member for Maribyrnong explained to me what he was seeking to achieve—that this was the direction we had to take. It brings dignity to families and to people with disability to live their best possible lives, and it's important that people with disability have been placed at the centre of this scheme.

I think the way the NDIS is meant to work and the way it aims to assist families and their loved ones is a very noble aim and something this parliament should keep working towards achieving. In that vein I thank the support workers who work in this field. It is a tough job; it is a tough field to work in. The care economy is a difficult economy to begin with. The care industry has many challenges but working with people with disability on a daily basis—while they would all argue, when you speak to them, how incredibly rewarding it is—can be unrelenting and challenging. I thank those workers.

But there are problems with the scheme, and we need to acknowledge that. The member for Fisher touched on this himself: in an environment where we need to maintain community confidence and trust that taxpayers' money is being spent well and effectively, it's critically important we get the settings right for the NDIS going forward. There are some serious systemic issues with the NDIS, and, like the member for Fisher, I have seen a disproportionate growth in constituents contacting me with concerns about how their package is working in their own homes. It is the No. 1 issue that comes through my electorate door in terms of volume and complexity of issues. We have people who are plan managers, support coordinators or family carers making representations for individual NDIS recipients, and for my staff these are often very complex matters to deal with and they take a lot of time. But I acknowledge that while we have perhaps been one of the more frequent correspondents to the minister's office we inevitably get a reply. It is more often than not timely. It's not always the answer my constituent wants, but, I've got to say, the minister and his office are working to help us overcome the bottlenecks and the complexities of the scheme and making sure we can get a response to our constituents in the timeliest manner possible.

The biggest challenge for government—and I think the finance minister and the Treasurer would agree—in relation to NDIS is its sustainability going forward. We know that the annual running cost of the NDIS in 2022-23 was $35.8 billion. Compare that to Medicare, which was $30.8 billion—so the NDIS is now costing Australian taxpayers more than Medicare itself. It's a difficult conversation to have because the people we're talking about are often individuals who have the most complex needs, and servicing those needs is always going to be expensive. The challenge for governments is making sure that the growth in demand for NDIS funding is being met on the ground by the right people receiving the services they need, not fraudulent behaviour ripping off the Australian taxpayers. I think there's an understanding across the chamber that the NDIS is on a trajectory which is very difficult for the budget to sustain, so I endorse the minister in his efforts to try and get this back onto a footing where this government, and future governments, can be confident they can meet the financial demands of the system.

I have some concerns about some of the cultural issues which now seem to exist in the wider community and almost a sense of entitlement developing, where people are expecting government to step in at times when perhaps community and self-help could be more actively engaged in fixing some of the problems we face on the ground. Government doesn't have the answer to all problems. Government doesn't have to fund every individual service in the community, and there is capacity in our community to do more in partnership with government, to leverage off the funding available through NDIS to provide more services in a manner which I think would be more cost-effective going forward. I don't put that out there to make any criticism of community members. If the bureaucrats in Canberra could find ways to look at the local solutions which may exist in some communities, we may be able to find some savings through the system.

I do have concerns that some of the care in the NDIS has become so individualised that it is difficult to see how that's sustainable in the longer term. There may be opportunities for more group activities and group programs where we can use Australian taxpayers' money more efficiently and still achieve very positive outcomes for the individual recipient of the care package.

But the member for Fisher was right. He indicated there were two problems: fraud and getting plans approved. There's a third problem, which I'm seeing in my office on a very regular basis. The prices for services are escalating beyond what I would say is reasonable. What I mean by that is that I think there's a fair bit of price gouging going on here. I think there are people in this system, whether they're plan managers or some unscrupulous providers, who have seen a pot of honey and have said, 'Let's see how much we can collect before the government figures out what we've been doing.' There's no sugar-coating this. There have been some people who are not doing the right thing. In doing so, they have undermined the sustainability of this scheme.

After more than a decade of operation, it is only appropriate, timely and perfectly acceptable for this parliament to have these conversations about how to refresh, reinvigorate, redirect and reset the NDIS to make sure that it will be a scheme that exists long into the future, because we have to acknowledge that this scheme has to survive changes of government. This scheme has to survive the passing careers. As much as we all think we're immortal, we're all going to pass through this place in the years ahead, and this scheme is going to outlive us all. We need to make sure this is a scheme that is a legacy of this parliament that future generations will value.

I think the minister's motives and intent in the legislation he's brought before the House are to be commended. I acknowledge that, in his second reading speech, he points to the fact that he has to tackle fraud, waste and overcharging so that every dollar does go towards a better outcome for the participants and not someone who's trying to make a quick buck.

Something that really concerns me in terms of our nation's attitude to schemes like this or to contracting for projects that are run by governments is that there seems to be a belief that has developed in Australia over a long period of time that ripping off the government is a victimless crime. 'If it's a government contract, take as much as you can. Ripping off the government is a victimless crime.' It's not a victimless crime. For every dollar these fraudulent operators take out of these systems, they are taking dollars out of taxpayers' pockets and increasing the cost of living for mums and dads and families across our nation. Whether it's fraudulent behaviour with the NDIS or fattening up contracts for infrastructure projects, ripping off the government is not a victimless crime. At the end of the day, someone has to pay for it, and it's the Australian taxpayers who cop the bill.

So I do acknowledge the minister's second reading speech, where he indicates he is going to tackle fraud. He has now appointed Mr Michael Phelan, a former director of the Australian Institute of Criminology and a decorated former police officer, as the Acting Commissioner of the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission. I commend the minister in that regard, and I commend Mr Phelan on his work. It is wrong to be fattening up contracts or overservicing or applying what the minister described as a 'wedding tax' to the NDIS. He's right. People have seen this pot of honey—this unlimited pot of gold or whatever you want to call it—and thought, 'I can charge whatever I want, and I'm going to get away with it.' So I encourage the minister's efforts to reduce the amount of fraud.

I welcome the bill before the House. I think the minister, in his second reading speech, has indicated that he'll work with the states and the opposition to deliver a common vision for the NDIS. I also encourage him, though, to see what he can do to drive localism into the scheme, to look for these local solutions. There are some fantastic operators in our communities—community health providers, sometimes in the charitable sector—who can leverage government money and make it go further, which is the direct opposite of what we find when we go to state governments. They can leverage Commonwealth money and make it go even shorter distances and cream off a bit of money themselves on the way through. The moment the NDIS came along, the state governments said: 'We can step back now. We can cost shift this one. We can get out of here!' You saw them running for the hills. I'd say to the minister: have a good look at what's available locally and regionally. There may be ways we can drive those dollars further just with a little bit of seed funding for some of these charitable non-profit providers or community groups that are trying to do good work in this field.

It's critical we get this right, because trust and integrity and belief in the scheme build community confidence, and the community is the first to know. The community sees the rorts. The community contact me and tells me: 'Do you know what the NDIS providers are up to now?' They can smell a rat. They can see the dodgy stuff going on and they say to us, 'You know, this scheme is out of control. We can't afford it.' The minister's big challenge is to restore that integrity and trust in the system so that the community has confidence in the system and the community feels very comfortable with the fact that their taxes are going to a world-class system. A critical issue for us is building community confidence that we're going to end the rorts and rip-offs in this area.

The other point I'd like to make in regard to the care economy is how the disability sector is now outcompeting other aspects of the care industry. I use the term 'care industry' with some reservations. The care industry or the care sector is the sector where people are involved in child care, in aged care or in supporting our veterans. The disability sector is actually outpricing them, which makes it difficult, then, to attract workers to the other sectors. We need to get some proportionality here to make sure that, in the care industry, as a sector, we are allowing people to focus on the area they want to focus on, if they're predisposed to work in those areas, and we don't have this giant, this behemoth, the NDIS, taking all the workforce away from those other sectors.

Making it sustainable for future generations is a critical element to it, as is building confidence in the community and making sure that the rorts and rip-offs are being exposed and people are being punished if they're up to no good. I will just say in closing that I will continue to approach these issues in good faith in a bipartisan way, and I hope the minister will continue to act in the same way. As I said, the NDIS is going to outlive every member in this place. This system has to work so future generations can get the benefits of it. We need to see the modelling that underpins the NDIS finance sustainability framework, we need to see the cost savings to be made with this legislation, and we need a detailed outline of the inevitable reductions that participants should expect as a result of these changes.

The coalition will reserve its final position on the bill until after the Senate inquiry is complete, but we do acknowledge and commend members of this parliament, and also members of previous parliaments, who have acted in a very bipartisan way on this issue. The NDIS is changing the lives of more than 600,000 Australians, and the coalition has always endeavoured to work constructively on and be a strong supporter of the scheme. We do want to see it fully funded going forward as a demand driven scheme. We've also been clear that it needs to be sustainable in the longer term. I look forward to working as constructively as possible with the minister to help get the NDIS back on track. I do thank him and his staff for their engagement with my office on what have been some very complex cases over the last couple of years, and I commend their work in making sure that the people with disability are placed at the centre of the scheme. I thank the House.

See this speech in context