Lisa Chesters (Bendigo, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Hansard source

The bill that is before us, the Education Services for Overseas Students Amendment (Quality and Integrity) Bill 2024, is measured, and it's about saving a sector from itself. I say that because I've worked with the university sector for a long time not just in this role but in previous roles. I'm the federal member for Bendigo; we have a La Trobe University campus in my electorate. I have been engaged with that campus since the day I was elected.

I say that it's a sector that needs to be saved from itself because I disagree that we should be viewing higher education as an export industry. I disagree with that statement. Education is a fundamental right, and the first role of our universities should be providing a world-class education to Australian domestic students first and foremost. They are publicly funded universities. At some point, about a decade ago, they reached a tipping point. They reached a tipping point when our universities went from having a majority of academic and academic support staff to having more general and marketing staff. It is a sector which has grown out of its original purpose, which was to offer quality higher education for Australian domestic students. It has tipped into this marketing area, to the extent that I don't believe that the university sector fully understands what's going on with their campuses and their courses. I say that with the experience that has been shared with me both as a federal member and as somebody who has family members who work in higher education.

I'll start first with the people that we've called the dodgy providers and the reforms there. It does feel like there is broad support across our parliament to crack down on the dodgy providers. Quite frankly, it's frustrating that it has taken so long to see reforms come before this parliament. It's taken a Labor government to bring forward reforms to shut down these dodgy providers, the visa hopping and the exploitation of those international students that occurs. It's this terrible 'everybody knows' secret—warehouses where there are supposed to be higher education institutions, shopfronts where nobody actually studies, but the paperwork is done and people are churned through. We have people who are here as international students on their third or fourth visa, meaning that they've been studying—technically studying—in this country for 15 years.

The point of a higher education, the point of being an international student and what we need to step back to in this debate is that international students are here for an educational experience. Some, along the way, may meet someone that they love and want to settle here in Australia. Some may get a job after it and be recruited to work. But what we now know, because the data tells us, is a huge chunk of them go to the next provider, and quite often that international student is the one that is being exploited.

People who cut hair in Melbourne are in some cases working here on an international student visa, but they're not studying to be a hairdresser; they're studying accountancy or something else. They're paying somebody, or someone else is doing the book work—their mum might be doing it—because they no longer qualify for that visa, so the student is the person who they are all anchored to. We have seen report after report tabled in this parliament about how international student education is being exploited for people who are looking for those work rights. That has to stop, and this bill looks to address that.

But, as I said at the beginning, we actually need to go further, because not even our universities understand or accept what is happening within their own university. It isn't just the dodgy RTOs or the shonky providers. It is also institutions that we say are world class and deeply respected. I am talking about Melbourne university, I am talking about UNSW, I'm talking about Sydney University—I am talking about some of our big universities, where this is happening in their own courses. There are courses being delivered through the University of Melbourne which are 95 per cent international students and above and beyond. They have students who are struggling to be able to complete the work because they don't have the English capability.

One of the comments that was raised by those opposite was that if they had introduced an English proficiency test we would have got upset about it. Depending on the visa, if you choose to study at Melbourne university in the graduate department of education, there should be an expectation that you have a high level of English proficiency. There should be that standard, yet we have students right now in that course at Melbourne university who don't meet that standard. They're putting their coursework through translators to submit it.

The problem that we have with higher education in our country is it has got away from that original image and original purpose, which is about delivering a quality of education, and the marketers have taken over. So when the sector has got to that stage where it is out of control, it is up to government to intervene and it is up to government to look at caps. Those universities are some of the most successful lobbyists, who are very well paid and who spend a lot of money engaging with all of us in here. They are probably right up there with the AMA when it comes to their ability to lobby. The G8 is incredibly powerful and incredibly influential. They've got to take ownership of what is happening in their courses and in their subjects.

One of the other things that is really important about this bill is that it is trying to encourage international students to think about studying at a regional campus. I've met with my local campus, Bendigo, at La Trobe University, who were a bit concerned with this bill. They've got only about 200 international students on the campus who are genuinely engaged in subjects and study. They are the one, two, three and four within a class. They have a support network that is around them. They have support in finding education. Quite often, when they are in a housing arrangement, it is purposed student accommodation that is found. That is a good example. That is the example that we would assume would be there to support international students when they come.

This isn't about the campuses where it is a small proportion of their overall student population. This is about the campuses where it is the majority of their students. This is about the courses where it is the majority of the students, and where the universities are not providing the quality of support that is required for that many students. The Central Queensland University has a campus in Melbourne CBD that does not have one domestic student at it. Now, what purpose is that set up for? This idea that our higher education institutions should be about making money and enterprise is the debate we need to be having. Should they? Should our higher education, our universities, be about making money and enterprise, marketing courses and attracting students no matter what, giving them a false bill of hope that they may one day become Australian citizens?

Some of the big G8 universities got caught out marketing: 'Do this course. Come to Australia. It leads to Australian citizenship.' That is not right. We want people to study in Australia as international students because of the cultural exchange and because of the education experience that they will get. This bill aims to restore that integrity. Unfortunately, with the growth of international students in our university sector, what has happened is that it has got out of control. Support isn't being offered to the people being invited here to study, and, quite often, they are the victims of exploitation. And the universities just churn through.

In fact, I met more international students before I became a member of parliament than I did when I was actually working in the university sector. Whilst I worked in the university sector a long time ago, in 2002 and 2003, I met a lot in the previous role I had before entering this parliament. And I didn't work for a university; I worked for the United Workers Union—it was called United Voice back then—and I met a lot of international students that were working in cleaning and hospitality. Some of them were being treated incredibly badly. They were technically here to study, but were working as many hours as they could, trying to do what they could to pay their course fees and to try their very best to stay in Australia.

I can remember house-visiting people living in horrible conditions. On every spare piece of floor there was a mattress. Five would be squeezed into a room and 10 or 15 into a house. It was unsafe. I'll be honest with you: I don't think that's the housing crisis that people in Australia are talking about, squashing five people into a bedroom. That's completely unacceptable. That's unsafe. But this is what the world is like for some international students. I don't conflate the two, because I think that the housing experience of many international students is quite shocking. Most Australians would say, 'That's just appalling and should not be happening in our country,' but it is.

When I spoke to these international students, I went in there with these basic assumptions that maybe they worked for a dodgy provider or maybe that's who they were doing the university courses for. But I was shocked to learn that a lot of these international students were actually studying at our universities—the ones that we try and hold up in great lights to say, 'These are amazing institutions.' They have to take more responsibility for international students. I believe that means we do have to get control of the numbers and bring them down so we can properly support the ones that are here and make sure they aren't being exploited in terms of their housing, their work experience and the support around them. But, with caps, we also need to make sure that the education experience is genuine and that they are able to do the work and get that proper educational experience. The caps are critical because that's about saying to the sector: 'You need to reform. You need to step back and think about what your purpose is. Are you about providing education to students brought here by marketing, who may not have the English capability, who may not have the commitment to study, who are here because they want work rights, or are you here to provide a genuine education?'

When it comes to this issue, we need to start listening to a broader academic experience. People who are living the experience of having to try and teach classes with up to 90 to 96 per cent, and in some cases 100 per cent, international students need to ask: is that the purpose of Australian universities here in this country? We are experiencing a downturn in domestic students wanting to go to universities after decades of upturn. It's on the universities and on us to start to talk about the student experience. Domestic students are more likely to say: 'Maybe I'll wait. Maybe I'll do TAFE. It's not quite my thing. There's a debt that I'm concerned about.' But there's more to unpack about why people aren't going to university. Perhaps it's the educational experience. It's hard to participate in a tute when you are the one domestic student with a large proportion of international students whose cameras are off because people aren't engaging and are simply there to tick the box because they are here not for the educational experience but for the work rights. I say again that I do not believe the universities are being genuine and honest about what's happening on their campuses and what's happening in their courses.

That is why this bill talking about caps has become so necessary. It's so we can rebuild our higher education sector to be something of what it was originally envisioned to be, making sure that it's about quality education, making sure that academic jobs are able to be about teaching, not about compliance, not about making sure that people hit all these criteria. We need to get back to a place where our universities are employing more academics and support staff than marketing staff. That's our problem, with where we're at with higher education. We hit a tipping point about a decade ago. If we fast forward to where we are today, caps are critical to making sure that we have oversight of what's happening on our campuses. I wish we didn't have to be here, but this is where the sector is at.

This bill is about ensuring integrity. It is about ensuring that we are getting universities to focus on what they're here to do: provide quality higher education. This idea that caps will somehow interfere with that is nonsense.

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