Shayne Neumann (Blair, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Hansard source

Scams take many forms. They include investment scams, remote access scams and romance scams. I remember making a speech, as what we now call the Assistant Minister to the Attorney-General, in the Brisbane convention centre in relation to what we were doing in respect of fraud and scams involving credit cards, and I said to the departmental officials: 'Is this correct? This figure that I've got to talk about is in the billions, not millions.'

But, when I look back on the nine years of the Morrison government, the Abbott government before that and the Turnbull government wedged in between, they did nothing. We get lectures from those opposite about it, but they did nothing in relation to the issue over nine long years. So we won't cop this criticism that they're making of us. Before we brought forward this legislation, we invested $180 million. And we've actually got scam losses in Australia down from $3.1 billion in 2022 to $2.7 billion in 2023. That's a decline of 13.1 per cent because of the action taken by this Labor government.

So we're taking steps, and we've got this legislation before the chamber, which will make a big difference. But we've still got a situation in this country where about 601,000 Australians were scammed last year, including some in this place. We all have family and friends who have been scammed, and scams take many forms and are insidious and clever. I remember being on a number of parliamentary committees involving gambling when people anonymously or privately were giving us evidence in relation to the way they were scammed. These were very prominent people in the country.

I'm pleased to say that this legislation, I believe, will make a difference. It's the Scams Prevention Framework Bill 2024. The Albanese government is protecting people from the scourge of scams, and we're taking this seriously. We want to make Australia the toughest place in the world for scammers to operate, and we are making a difference. We know that scam activity is on the rise. That doesn't mean to say that people are falling for it, but the activity is there. That wonderful thing which we call the internet has allowed people from all parts of the world to tap into it and present themselves as some person who truly loves you and wants you to give them money because they're in desperate need, or they've got some sort of scam all over the place. Maybe they've got a get-rich-quick scheme, and it looks fantastic: 'If you only invest in it, you'll do well.' So it takes many forms.

The current scam protections are a bit all over the place. They're not consistent across the economy, and there are different protections and responses across different industries and providers. So we're taking up the fight. This is an all-encompassing framework. It's coherent. It will make a difference. It's about prevention, detection, disruption and response. The Scams Prevention Framework, as we call it, will become an important part, the central part, of the government's broader consumer protection agenda. So this will make a difference. We're providing some strong defences.

This landmark legislation has been criticised by those opposite, but I notice that in nine years they didn't do anything like this. This landmark legislation delivers on an election commitment. We knew in opposition that we had to do things. We knew that the previous government had sat on their hands. It didn't matter whether the Prime Minister was an Abbott, Turnbull or Morrison. This bill establishes a whole-of-economy approach. It places obligations on key businesses through the Competition and Consumer Act 2010. The framework is the cornerstone delivering on our commitment. The legislation puts real obligations on banks, social media companies and telcos to prevent scams or face hefty fines and compensation for victims.

The previous speaker talked about the difficulties. That's why we want to take action. Under the framework, designated businesses—initially banks, social media platforms and telecommunications companies, where a lot of the scam activity currently occurs—will face fines of up to $50 million if they don't take reasonable steps to prevent, detect, disrupt, respond to and report scams and attempted scams in their business. Victims will have clear pathways to compensation if businesses fail in their obligations.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, the ACCC, gets new powers under this legislation to direct businesses to take specific steps to keep their customers safe from scammers, and the Australian Financial Complaints Authority—who, I might add, could do a lot better on insurance issues in relation to floods—will be empowered to resolve consumer claims over scams in these sectors.

Consumers were left to fend for themselves before we put big business on the hook for redress when they failed to stop scammers. Once the legislation passes, the framework will enable the minister to establish some sector-specific codes, and the codes will impose mandatory obligations on banks and the other organisations that I talked about. It will mandate that these designated sectors have internal dispute resolution mechanisms that are clear, accessible and transparent for consumers. We're familiar with this type of process, and I don't know why we're being criticised for it, because it operates across a whole range of sectors in the economy.

Currently, social media platforms have no mechanism for consumers to raise disputes. In addition, the framework will allow the minister to make rules setting out guidance on how to apportion liability at an internal dispute resolution between one or more businesses who are at fault to assist victims seeking redress. It will enable a single external dispute resolution scheme for scam complaints made under the framework where a dispute cannot be resolved through internal dispute resolution. AFCA operates like that now on insurance issues, for a start. It will build a mandatory coordinated intelligence sharing ecosystem that requires timely reporting and information sharing across industry and government. I might add that the reforms have been subject to extensive consultation—it's a pity those opposite didn't listen to the people who gave us feedback—and stakeholders broadly support the system that we're bringing in. It's also worth noting that other sectors, such as superannuation, cryptocurrency, online marketplaces and other payment providers, may be designated under the framework in future.

I know there has been some criticism that the legislation is too soft on the banks. The previous speaker said that it was just on the banks and nothing else. There have been calls for the framework to go further, particularly in respect of mandatory reimbursement by banks. The government have not taken a mandatory presumption of reimbursement approach, like the United Kingdom's, because we want to incentivise actions to address scam activity across the entire scam activity chain, including banks, tech platforms and telcos, and not leave some sectors with lower expectations and responsible for liability. We don't want just one sector to be responsible; we want the whole chain to be responsible.

The rationale is that placing liability on banks alone fails to recognise and hold to account entities that have had many opportunities to stop a scam before harm is caused to the consumer. It's the same thing in all forms of litigation: you look at the different groups and organisations who are at fault. Whether it's negligence or breach of contract, you look at everyone. You don't pick on one particular sector or one particular business. That may be why we've seen some of the banks come out and raise concerns about social media companies' management of scams on their platforms. The framework will ensure that all points of the scam chain are held to account, as it is common for scammers to use multiple platforms and services to steal from consumers.

The Senate Economics Legislation Committee's report on the bill recommended it be passed. I know that as part of that inquiry a range of views on the bill and our Scams Prevention Framework were expressed by both parliamentarians and stakeholders. Some of the claims from the Greens and crossbench senators in the context of the inquiry, suggesting the government was protecting banks, were frankly ridiculous. As I said before, our world-first approach will ensure all parts of the scams chain have to account for the actions they take to protect consumers. The banks themselves have said that when they're at fault they will reimburse victims, and that will continue.

We're working to ensure consumers get swift access to justice and that we have the right incentives in place to protect their interests. We're deliberately taking a preventative approach so scams don't happen in the first place, because it's always better to prevent a crime happening than to rely on compensation. The reality is that this is the toughest legislation the world has seen, and it's clear that there's strong support for it to pass. We'll work through some of the details, but the overwhelming message from the inquiry was that strong prevention measures are needed.

This bill is just one part of an ambitious anti-scam agenda the government is rolling out to protect Australians. We've already set up the National Anti-Scam Centre and Scamwatch service—that was in July last year—as part of our $86.5 million investment to fight scams and online fraud in the 2023-24 budget. The National Anti-Scam Centre, located within the ACCC, is a world-leading partnership between government law enforcement agencies and the private sector. It means consumers can look to a trusted centralised point within government for information and education to protect themselves from scams.

On top of this, just last month the government launched the Fighting Scams Campaign, which includes TV and social media ads running until 22 March. This campaign is about equipping Australians with simple, actionable strategies to guard against scams. The key messages are: stop before sharing personal information; check that you know who you're dealing with; protect against scams by taking actions like reporting them to scamwatch.gov.au.

I was pleased to see the Australian Banking Association back in the scams awareness campaign which is part of our response. Everyone needs to do their bit. The government's action is about keeping people's money safe through our prevention strategy, and I think it's showing early success. Losses have almost halved since we stood up the National Anti-Scam Centre. Scamwatch data shows that reported scam losses dropped by 40 per cent in the 2023-24 financial year compared to the previous year. This bill will implement the framework.

Just like the National Anti-Scam Centre and the Fighting Scams Campaign, our important role—as the previous speaker said, and I agree with her—is to raise awareness in the local community. In July last year I was delighted to have the Minister for Financial Services at a community scams forum in Ipswich. It was an opportunity for locals to learn ways to protect themselves from scams, to know what to do if they're targeted by a scam and to hear more about the steps the government was taking to crack down on this crime. A number of the government and community organisations attended: Australia Post; Services Australia; Queensland Police Service; and IDCARE, the national identity and cyber support service. They provided information and feedback on scams impacting the local community in Ipswich as well. Police officers, such as respected police sergeant Nadine Webster from the Ipswich District Crime Prevention Unit, spoke at the forum and reported that local police had succeeded in shutting down a scam operation just around the time that the members of the public came forward with information, and she gave a very detailed account of it.

I was very pleased to see the work of the local Queensland police, but there were some very sad stories too. We heard that day—and in our offices we hear all the time—about scammers ripping money out of the pockets of hardworking locals. The IDCARE data shows that about $1 million had been lost to scams in Ipswich in the previous six months. For example, we heard from a constituent, Peter, who had been conned out of $130,000 when he thought he was investing in a safe term deposit through a broker. Many people talked about experiencing persistent calls, spams, texts and misleading advertisements on social media attempting to scam them out of their money. I thank local people in Ipswich for coming forward at the forum and being so open about what they had experienced. What it shows is that it's more important than ever for people in my community to be alert and aware of how to protect themselves. It also highlights why this legislation we're debating today is just so urgent.

In closing, I will say that the Albanese government has made scams a priority. We do get the financial and emotional turmoil. It was on full display at the scams forum last year in Ipswich. We want to rid Australia of this. We'll work together with anyone and everyone in relation to this. We want to ensure that people keep more of what they earn, and we're going to make sure that they keep their money safe. We're determined to crack down on criminals who rip off hardworking Australians. By sending a clear message that this harmful practice won't be tolerated here in any way at all, we're making Australia the hardest place for scammers to ply their trade. We want to make sure that victims know that we have their backs. We know more needs to be done, and that's why this legislation is before the chamber.

People in my community want tough action to protect their money and prevent crime. They want information. They want these laws delivered in the fight against scammers. I urge the parliament to do the right thing by the people in my community, whether they live in Ipswich or the Somerset region or around Karana Downs. I want this whole parliament to support this legislation to ensure consumers get the protection they need as soon as possible. I commend the bill to the House.

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