Jenny Macklin (Jagajaga, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Prime Minister. Is the Prime Minister aware that, according to figures from the Department of Education, Science and Training, there was a drop of almost 10 per cent in the number of year 12 completers going on to university or vocational education between 2000 and 2004? With almost 100 degrees costing young Australians over $100,000, is it any wonder that the number of students completing year 12 going on to university has plummeted? Why has the Howard government made it so much more expensive for young people to go to university and turned 300,000 young Australians away from TAFE at a time when the Australian economy needs 20,000 scientists and engineers and 100,000 extra tradespeople?

John Howard (Bennelong, Liberal Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the Deputy Leader of the Opposition for her question. I will check the figure. But whether it is right or not makes no material difference to the answer I give, because I would have thought that one of the reasons fewer people might be going on to university now is that it is easier to get a job. What a terrible thing! I think it is a good thing if you can get a job. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition talks about turning people away from TAFE. The last time I checked, TAFEs were run by state Labor governments. The time before that that I checked, they had increased the fees by about 300 per cent. So let me say to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition: if there has been a situation where fewer people are going on to university, that is not of itself—and I do think that, if we are to seriously address the skills issue in this country, we need to get away from the deputy leader’s mindset that the only good education is a university education—

Opposition Members:

Opposition members interjecting—

David Hawker (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The member for Ballarat is warned!

John Howard (Bennelong, Liberal Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

She was brought up in the culture that says that unless you go to university you are a failure. Can I say that that is one of the reasons that people have been driven out of the skilled trades. That is one of the explanations. So let me say to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition—

Julia Irwin (Fowler, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mrs Irwin interjecting

David Hawker (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Fowler is warned!

John Howard (Bennelong, Liberal Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Oh, we are getting sensitive about this, aren’t we!

Jenny Macklin (Jagajaga, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, on a point of order on relevance: the question made it absolutely plain that—

David Hawker (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition will resume her seat. The Prime Minister is responding to the substance of the question. I call the Prime Minister.

John Howard (Bennelong, Liberal Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If the Deputy Leader of the Opposition thinks too many people have been turned away from TAFE, why don’t you talk to Mr Beattie? Why don’t you talk to Mr Iemma? Why don’t you talk to Mr Carpenter, Mr Bracks or Mr Rann?

Opposition Members:

Opposition members interjecting—

John Howard (Bennelong, Liberal Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Leader of the Opposition, interjecting, says, ‘We do.’ Well, they do not take any notice of you, do they? They have not done anything about it. Can I say to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition that the mindset she brings to this issue is part of the problem. It is the belief that the future of the country is driven entirely by the number of people who seek to go to university. I welcome the fact—

Jenny Macklin (Jagajaga, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, on a point of order: once again, the Prime Minister is completely ignoring the point made in the question—

David Hawker (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The deputy leader will resume her seat. The Prime Minister is in order.

John Howard (Bennelong, Liberal Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Let me simply conclude and say to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition that, if there has been a decline in the number of people going on to university in the early part of the 21st century, I think it might have something to do with the fact that unemployment is at a 30-year low.

Jenny Macklin (Jagajaga, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So that is why we have—

David Hawker (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition is warned!