Alex Somlyay (Fairfax, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is addressed to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. Would the minister explain the importance of Australia’s commitment in Iraq and its significant contribution to defeating terrorism? Would the minister explain the consequences of alternative policies?

Alexander Downer (Mayo, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Firstly, can I thank the honourable member for Fairfax for his question and for his interest. After four years, I think we can look back with pride and say that we made a contribution to bringing down a vicious dictator—a man who tortured and murdered his people, who used chemical weapons against his own people; a man who invaded neighbouring countries, who started a war with Iran in which a million people were killed. We are proud that we contributed to destroying that regime. Secondly, we are proud that we made a contribution to the start of a new democracy. The people of Iraq have voted three times. The last time, 12 million of those people went out and voted for a democratically elected parliament which has elected a government.

On this side of the House, we are champions of democracy. We believe in democracy and we believe in it with a great deal of passion. We are very proud that we have made a contribution. We accept that the situation in Iraq, particularly in Baghdad and Al Anbar province, and the four provinces in and around Baghdad, is very difficult. People are being attacked by terrorists, by al-Qaeda in Iraq. The suicide bombings are mainly conducted by those people. There have been battles between death squads and militias in and around Baghdad as well, and this has been a very great threat to democracy in Iraq. And there have been attempts, particularly by al-Qaeda in Iraq, to foment civil war.

It is the view of this government that these people must be defeated. The Baghdad security plan is unfolding and we will have to wait and see how successful that will be. We are not making any false claims. At this stage, there are some early and encouraging signs. We are hopeful about the future. We are not certain, but we happen to think it is a good idea to support the Baghdad security plan. The Labor Party think it should be opposed. They oppose the Baghdad security plan. They said it was wrong. It was not wrong. It is worth trying to defeat the terrorists in and around Baghdad. I must say I have a great deal of admiration for those who have the courage to take up the fight to those terrorists, and I do not have any admiration for people who think the solution is to run away.

I will give the House an example. Some terrorists abducted two children in a car. They drove this car full of bombs into a crowded area. They left the children in the car because the children gave them the opportunity to get the car through security—security people did not think a car with children would be a problem. The terrorists ran away from the car, they detonated the bombs and they killed the children in an attempt to kill other people as well. These are not the sorts of people that we on this side of the House would ever want to give in to. We would never want to let people like that win. We would never want to see people as depraved as that victorious.

What about the opposition? It seems to me that the opposition says it has an exit strategy. Its exit strategy can be summed up in one word and that word is ‘surrender’. That is the opposition’s exit strategy. Our exit strategy is conditions based. When the Iraqi security forces can sustain their democracy, that is the time to leave. If they cannot, and you leave then, it is time to surrender. It is as simple as that.

Let me make the point that when in this country we debate the issue of Iraq people need to answer this question: do we want democracy to succeed in Iraq or do we not? On this side of the House we do want it to succeed. Will the Labor Party ever stand up and say it wants democracy to succeed in Iraq? I have not heard it yet. Do we want the insurgents and the terrorists to win in Iraq—

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They’ll be having a good look for you, Alex.

David Hawker (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Hunter!

Alexander Downer (Mayo, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

or do we want the Iraqi army and the coalition—Australians and Americans—to win? I would have thought the answer to that question was that we wanted the Iraqi army, the Iraqi police and coalition forces to win. On this side of the House we want them to win.

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The defence minister said there is no victory in Iraq.

David Hawker (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Hunter is warned!

Alexander Downer (Mayo, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We do not want the insurgents and the terrorists to win; we are against that. We are against those people. Funnily enough, we want our side to win. People are rightly appalled at the killing that has been taking place in Iraq. We are all appalled at that. But do we want it to get worse or do we want it to get better? Do we want to see a decline in the killing or do we want to see it get worse? Those who argue for a precipitate withdrawal from Iraq are arguing in effect for an environment where many more people will be killed, where Darfur will look, as I have said before, like a Sunday afternoon picnic. That is what will happen with a so-called exit strategy which is premature and which leaves the country in a state of chaos.

At the end of the day, on this side of the House we know this is a tough issue to argue; we accept that. But we also know that to allow terrorists to win, to allow the insurgents to win, would be not just a catastrophe for the Iraqis and the Middle East, as former Prime Minister of Spain Aznar said overnight, but a disaster for security in our own region because of the inspiration such a defeat would give to terrorists in South-East Asia. It is as simple as that. I think that as a country and as part of the international community we have to have the courage to win this war, not just to say our exit strategy is surrender.

Kevin Rudd (Griffith, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is again to the Prime Minister and is also on Iraq. It refers to the question I asked him yesterday on contingency plans for the phased withdrawal of Australian troops. Can the Prime Minister confirm the statement made by the foreign minister on the ABC this morning, when asked about contingency plans for Iraq, that ‘all militaries make contingency plans’? Prime Minister, what is Australia’s contingency plan for the phased withdrawal of troops from Iraq?

John Howard (Bennelong, Liberal Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I can inform the Leader of the Opposition that none of our contingencies is surrender. I can certainly inform him of that. The answer I gave to the question yesterday, as I indicated, was in relation to the American position. So far as Australia is concerned, the government has not made any requests of the ADF to have a contingency plan to withdraw because it is our policy to maintain the current commitment, but I am quite certain that the ADF would have the operational capacity to handle any contingency.