Stuart Robert (Fadden, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Defence. Minister, how much money has been deducted from the pay packets of SAS soldiers by way of debt recovery since August 2008? Has the minister personally met with any serving members of the SAS who have had their salaries reduced and been hit with debt notices? If so, when did these meetings take place?

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for his question. Not surprisingly, the issue of special forces pay was the key topic in Senate estimates this morning. The member asks a very detailed question—the same question that was asked by Senator Johnston of senior military leaders at great length this morning. Senior military leaders, including the Chief of the Defence Force and the Chief of Army, answered those questions, including in great detail—

Opposition Members:

Opposition members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The question has been asked. The minister is responding.

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I share with the House the words of Senator Johnston following those answers.

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The Westminster system requires a minister to be accountable to the parliament in question time.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What is the point of order?

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He has been asked a question and he should at least attempt to answer it.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Sturt will resume his seat. He knows that he can approach the dispatch box and raise a point of order. The point of order is relevance. The minister is responding to the question. The minister has the call.

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given that those opposite were obviously not listening very well earlier on, I will repeat Senator Johnston’s quote—

Opposition Members:

Opposition members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Luke Simpkins (Cowan, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Greg’s grinning!

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Cowan is warned!

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

After extensive grilling in Senate estimates, Senator Johnston said: ‘Now, can I thank you, General’—that is General Gillespie, Chief of Army—‘for the way you’ve answered my questions today.’

Stuart Robert (Fadden, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on relevance. Men in harm’s way have had their pay deducted. How much—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Fadden will resume his seat. The minister is responding to the question. The minister has the call.

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Johnston said: ‘Now, can I thank you, General, for the way that you’ve answered my questions today. I am satisfied that things are moving ahead positively. I have what I need for the—for my satisfaction—’

Sharman Stone (Murray, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Immigration and Citizenship) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order. It is about relevance. The minister was asked what he personally—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member will resume her seat. She has raised her point of order on relevance. I have indicated, by giving the call to the minister, that he is responding to the question. The minister has the call. I am listening carefully to the response.

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Johnston said: ‘I am satisfied that things are moving ahead positively. I have what I need for the—for my satisfaction that these men will be looked after properly.’

Chris Pearce (Aston, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Financial Services, Superannuation and Corporate Law) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Aston will resume his seat. The minister has the call.

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The shadow minister responsible has publicly said, in estimates, that he is satisfied with the progress of this issue, having grilled senior military people on this issue. They say the buck stops with me, and it certainly does, and it does with every minister in my position. Indeed, I was advised by Army today that the government has found itself in this situation in the past. I am advised that in 2006 Defence worked to resolve a longstanding issue that resulted from a Defence Force Remuneration Tribunal determination—very familiar—where 5,500 then-serving soldiers and up to 20,000 ex-soldiers had potentially been overpaid. I am advised the issue was a potential overpayment for trade pay—

Opposition Members:

Opposition members interjecting—

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You just don’t get it, do you?

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister will ignore the interjections.

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am advised the issue was the potential overpayment for trade pay, as soldiers had not completed the required training.

Kevin Andrews (Menzies, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Menzies will resume his seat. I am listening closely.

Kevin Andrews (Menzies, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, standing orders require you to hear my point of order.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member will resume his seat. The minister has the call. The minister will commence the conclusion of his answer.

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have done three things: an immediate stop on the recovery process, a Chief of Army directive, which has now—

Opposition Members:

Opposition members interjecting—

Joel Fitzgibbon (Hunter, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

18 February, which has now extinguished all debts. No member of the ADF now has a debt as a result of the implementation of the rem tribunal’s decision. There is one other thing I have done. I have ensured that this will not happen in the future by making sure that all qualifications in the future are granted formally and by ensuring that we make the appropriate investment in our ICT systems. If the former government had done that back in 2006, we would not be having this debate today.