Julie Collins (Franklin, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Finance and Deregulation. Why is accurate budget reporting of Commonwealth funding of public hospitals important to the health reform debate?

Lindsay Tanner (Melbourne, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Franklin for her question. Accuracy in budget reporting of Commonwealth funding of public hospitals is extremely important, so I am somewhat distressed at recent disputes as to whether or not that reporting has been accurate. You will be aware that the government has consistently pointed out in recent times that while the Leader of the Opposition was minister for health, more than $1 billion was ripped out of federal government funding of public hospitals. As you will know from his demeanour at the dispatch box, the Leader of the Opposition suggests that this is not true. In fact, he stated that the billion dollars being removed from the public hospital system was in fact removed by the Howard government in the 1996 budget.

I had a look at the 1996 budget papers, because I happen to have them with me here, and in fact the total amount cut from Commonwealth funding for public hospitals—he clearly was not trying—was only about $312 million in the 1996 budget estimates. I also decided that, having had a look at those, I had probably better have a look at the budget papers that applied to the period when the Leader of the Opposition was health minister. I should remind the House that that was from 7 October 2003 to 3 December 2007, and the relevant healthcare agreement for the Commonwealth funding of public hospitals was from July 2003 to July 2008. The 2003 budget papers show that over that relevant period there were in fact significant cuts in projected spending on public hospitals and there were downgrades of the forward estimates for those periods, and I will run through them for you. For 2003-04, a cut of $109 million—

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Under standing order 91(f), I point out to you that it is disorderly for the minister to tell lies to the parliament.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Manager of Opposition Business will withdraw.

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If it assists the House I withdraw, Mr Speaker.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is not in the hands of any occupant of the chair to decide if the point being made is that it causes disorder if people believe that something that is being said cannot be verified, because it would not be within the powers of the chair to decide that. As I have said earlier this week and earlier during this parliament, there are other forms of the House that enable these things to be corrected. The question was in order. The minister is responding to that question.

Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Is it in order for the minister to misleadingly quote the budget papers and not the part of the budget papers that says there is a $10 billion increase—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Leader of the Opposition will resume his seat.

Daryl Melham (Banks, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Melham interjecting

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The member for Banks is not assisting in any way. As I have indicated to the House, rising on a point of order is not an opportunity for members to enter into debate. The minister for finance has the call. He is responding to the question.

Lindsay Tanner (Melbourne, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I point out for the benefit of the House that I am in fact quoting from Howard government budget papers. I will start the sequence again. The forward estimates for spending on public hospitals were reduced for the year 2003-04 by $109 million, for the year 2004-05 by $172 million, for the year 2005-06 by $265 million and for the year 2006-07 by $373 million. A quick calculation shows that they add up to roughly $920 million, so not quite $1 billion and the Leader of the Opposition was not health minister for the first three months of that period. However, the agreement was for five years and according to the department the cut in the forward estimates for 2007-08 was $497 million. Even though the Leader of the Opposition was only minister for the first half of that period, whichever way you do the sums on this it is absolutely plain on the budget record of the Howard government that the Leader of the Opposition, as health minister, presided over more than $1 billion being ripped out of the projected forward spending estimates for the public hospitals of Australia. It is there in black and white on page 179 of Budget Paper No. 2 2003-04 circulated by the Hon. Peter Costello and the Hon. Nick Minchin. In case they really need it explained I will table the budget paper—

Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Abbott interjecting

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Leader of the Opposition will withdraw.

Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I am happy to withdraw, but they are lies.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Leader of the Opposition will withdraw.

Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am happy to withdraw, but you need to know what they are like.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Leader of the Opposition knows of his obligation to withdraw unreservedly. Leaders of the opposition have been given a great degree of tolerance, but that is not unlimited.

Honourable Members:

Honourable members interjecting—

Anthony Albanese (Grayndler, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition must withdraw.

Mrs Bronwyn Bishop (Mackellar, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Seniors) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise on a point of order, Mr Speaker, that intervention by the Leader of Government Business sounded very much like intimidation of the Chair. He should be made to withdraw.

Honourable Members:

Honourable members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The House really should settle down and calm down. The Minister for Finance and Deregulation has the call and that is my indication of where we are at.

Anthony Albanese (Grayndler, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order, the Leader of the Opposition has defied your ruling that he must withdraw.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I indicate to the Leader of the House that if he had listened to the admonishment I gave to the Leader of the Opposition he would know that, whilst I accept on this occasion that he has withdrawn, I have indicated to him that the licence that has been given traditionally to leaders of the opposition has probably been nearly expended on this occasion for him. I take it yet again, like on the previous day when I indicated, that the withdrawal has been made point-blank.

Lindsay Tanner (Melbourne, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In case there is any doubt about the true meaning of Budget Paper No. 2 page 179, I would refer the Leader of the Opposition to the explanation for these cuts in projected spending—and that is, expected lower growth in public hospital usage because of the shift to private hospitals expected because of the government’s 30 per cent private health insurance rebate and Lifetime Health Cover. So this is not some technical readjustment, reassessment of hospital costs or anything like that, it is a deliberate ideological decision by the former government in which he was health minister to move money away from public hospitals.

Honourable Members:

Honourable members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The minister is responding to the question.

Lindsay Tanner (Melbourne, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I note that on the doors today the Leader of the Opposition was sliding around a bit and he said:

At one stage there was an adjustment to the forward estimates…

The facts are very clear. The previous budget projected a certain level of forward spending on public hospitals. The Howard government introduced the private health insurance rebate and cut that projected spending to the tune of over $1 billion over the period for which the Leader of the Opposition was health minister. No amount of slick and slimy sophistry can change the truth that every time he gets up and does a personal explanation on these issues he is deliberately and directly misrepresenting the facts. The truth is that the Howard government with the Leader of the Opposition as health minister ripped out over $1 billion from projected public hospital funding and he is nothing other than a complete policy fraud. If he spent more time focusing on patients and less time buffing up his pecs for the cameras we might treat him seriously.

Ms Julie Bishop (Curtin, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, on a point of order: I ask that you ask the finance minister to withdraw his reference to fraud.

Lindsay Tanner (Melbourne, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw, Mr Speaker.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I appreciate that the finance minister, so we can get on with things quickly, has withdrawn. I think that we really have to get things in the context of when comments are made. I am just making a passing observation on that.