Joe Hockey (North Sydney, Liberal Party, Shadow Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Prime Minister. I refer to the proposal by the government to increase its borrowing limit from $200 billion to $250 billion. Why is the government increasing the government's credit card limit while claiming to be paying off debt? Doesn't the Prime Minister agree that Australians struggling with a higher cost of living deserve a Treasurer with a steady hand, who doesn't fumble with the figures and fiddle with the facts?

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the shadow Treasurer for his question. I agree with him that Australians do deserve a Treasurer with a steady hand, and they have one. They have a Treasurer who has delivered a budget that will return the budget to surplus in 2012-13 exactly as promised. When they look at the alternative, the shadow Treasurer, all of his claims, all of his mindless negativity, lands in a bundle at his feet tonight, because he has been wandering around saying that he could get the budget into surplus a year earlier than the government. So, if he is truly concerned about questions of debt and deficit, what he well knows is that to deal with debt and deficit you need to have a plan that gets the budget into surplus. We do.

Now tonight is the opportunity for the shadow Treasurer to give the Leader of the Opposition a page of figures which explains his plan to get the budget into surplus 12 months earlier. We await that plan. What we know about the shadow Treasurer is that he has been alongside the Leader of the Opposition in some shameful, farcical exercises when it comes to trying to put figures together. We remember their flood funding package farce earlier this year, when they said to the government: 'Gee, we could get all of this together. It'd be easy. It'd be easy to find billions of dollars of savings to rebuild the nation. We wouldn't need a flood levy,' they said. 'We'll produce the figures.' When they produced the figures they degenerated into a week of internal chaos. Because they were so desperate for savings, they snatched up a One Nation email. We remember the election campaign when presumably the shadow Treasurer was involved with the Leader of the Opposition in generating their so-called costings for the election? We remember the $11 billion black hole the shadow Treasurer was no doubt—

Joe Hockey (North Sydney, Liberal Party, Shadow Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order which goes to relevance. The question is: why is the government increasing its own credit card limit while claiming to pay off the debt?

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The member for North Sydney will resume his seat. A member getting the call for a point of order is not an invitation to repeat the question. But if the question is going to be repeated it needs to be repeated in full. It was—

Joe Hockey (North Sydney, Liberal Party, Shadow Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Okay.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! No. That is not an invitation from the Speaker. It is just a warning about how to handle a point of order. The Prime Minister is responding to the question. She should not also respond to interjections, and the member for North Sydney should not interject. The point of order is not upheld on this occasion.

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I was asked about questions of budgeting, of debt, and I am responding to that question. I am particularly responding to what would have made circumstances for this country worse. And what would have made circumstances for this country worse, if we want to talk about questions of debt, is the shadow Treasurer's approach to accounting. He claimed in the election campaign that he had $50 billion of savings. He ran out and spent $40 billion of them and then, of course, Treasury found an $11 billion black hole. As I am advised, if we were pursuing the course that the shadow Treasurer recommended then there would be a deficit at the bottom of every year in the forward estimates in this budget. If the shadow Treasurer does not agree with that contention, he has a great opportunity tonight to give the Leader of the Opposition a page of figures which shows what they would cut to get the budget into surplus a year earlier, as the shadow Treasurer has said that they are able to do. If he cannot give the Leader of the Opposition that page of figures, he has failed the test of credibility. And if he does not give the Leader of the Opposition that page of figures, then the Leader of the Opposition will stand tonight before the Australian people as a risk to the budget surplus, a risk to their cost of living and a risk to our future economy.

Deborah O'Neill (Robertson, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Prime Minister. Why is strong fiscal management vital to keep the economy strong and deliver jobs for Australian families?

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Robertson for her question. I know that, as a great representative of her local community in this parliament, she is vitally concerned about making sure that, through the budget, we keep the economy strong. Mr Speaker, perhaps you did not hear it but when the Treasurer rose to answer the first question in parliament today, which was about the jobs numbers released today, the Manager of Opposition Business yelled out, 'What's this got to do with the budget?' and then repeated on a number of occasions, 'Why aren't you talking about the budget?'

How could you be so out of touch with the lives of Australians? How could you be so divorced from the concerns of everyday Australians as to think that jobs were somehow not associated with the government's budget? The government's budget is all about jobs. It is about keeping the economy strong; it is about getting Australians the opportunity that they want and deserve to improve their own lives, to make sure that they can improve the lives of their children. That is what the budget is about. It is built on the foundation stone of having created 750,000 jobs—jobs created while many nations around the world ended up with unemployment rates of eight and nine and 10 per cent: millions of jobs destroyed by the global financial crisis as this government acted to protect Australian jobs.

The government having created 750,000 jobs, this budget builds on that to create more jobs and more opportunity—another half a million jobs to be created in the next couple of years and a deliberate strategy to spread the benefits of opportunity throughout the Australian community. In order to do that we have to make sure that we are supporting Australians who are capable of work but who are not currently in the workforce into that workforce—responsibility and opportunity in one package so they too can experience the benefits of the current growth phase of our economy as our economy moves towards full capacity and the budget comes to surplus in 2012-13.

As well as building a culture of opportunity for Australians who are currently beyond the workforce, we want Australians within the workforce to have better opportunities. That is what our $3 billion training package is all about. We also want to make sure we are supporting Australians with the services that Australians need today. We have acted to improve skills; we have acted to improve child care; we have acted to improve vocational education and training, universities, our health care system—and the list goes on. But in this budget particularly we are focusing on mental health because too many Australians confront mental illness, either their own or within their own family, with insufficient support. So we have put a priority on that. But we have done it all in the context of bringing the budget to surplus in 2012-13, exactly as promised. You can only do that if you show a tough approach and make the appropriate cutbacks.

The opposition have condemned basically every cut the government has made. You cannot surplus budget and not make cutbacks. So tonight is decision-making night for the Leader of the Opposition. Does he endorse the government's budget or can he identify savings of his own? He walks into this room with no savings in his pocket. Let us see if they can get the job done.

Warren Truss (Wide Bay, National Party, Leader of the Nationals) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Treasurer, and it follows on from the previous, unanswered, question to the Prime Minister. Will the Treasurer confirm that, unstated in his budget speech, the government is seeking to increase the maximum amount that it can borrow to $250 billion? If the government's budget was so responsible and the government really believes that it will return the budget to surplus, why does it need to borrow $250 billion?

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I really do thank the member for that question. I think it was a flick pass from Joe, because he said in the question that it was unstated in the budget papers that we were going to lift the borrowing limit. Those opposite had six hours in the budget lock-up to read the budget papers. It is very clear that after that six hours they were incapable of absorbing even the most basic information, because our intention to lift the borrowing limit has been flagged for a long time. It has been known in markets and it is there very clearly in the budget papers. Indeed, it is in budget statement 7 at page 18, but they could not find that. They could not read the budget papers. It was also in Budget Paper No. 4 at page 11, but after six hours they could not see it there.

Despite the fact that it has been flagged , despite the fact that it has been talked about in markets, they then missed something else, because the Assistant Treasurer came into the House and announced it. He announced it in this House, following the budget speech, to everybody in the House and to everybody listening. He did it in the appropriate place; he did it in the appropriation bills. Despite all of that in here, in the bright lights, in the people's House, in the parliament, they even missed that. Then it went another 48 hours before they suddenly realised that we were increasing the borrowing limit. That just shows how incompetent, how out of touch, they have become.

Government Members:

Government members interjecting—

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am asked why. All of the reasons have been detailed in the budget speech and in the budget papers. I know that they do not do a lot of work, I know that they are pretty lazy and I know that they are pretty sloppy, but to make this sort of allegation they must have slept all the way through the global financial crisis and the natural disasters earlier this year, because what we have detailed and have been talking about for weeks and weeks is the impact of the natural disasters on the budget bottom line and the additional impacts of the global financial crisis and the global recession.

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I raise a point of order. We have given the Treasurer three out of four minutes to detail where in the budget speech this blow-out in debt is contained. I thought that he was going to try to point to that. He has not mentioned anything to do with that so he could not possibly be relevant. I ask you to bring him back to answer the question.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

At this point in time of interruption, the Treasurer is responding to the second part of the question directly. The Treasurer has the call, and I remind him that he should refer to members by their parliamentary titles accurately.

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is nothing unusual about the government lifting the borrowing limit, nothing at all. I am going to cite an unusual authority who is backing us up on this. I am going to cite Senator Barnaby Joyce, who has already backed lifting the borrowing limit. It is just common sense. We are bringing our budget back into the black in 2012-13. We will pay down debt and we will also have a conversation with the Australian community, the parliament and the financial markets about what we will do in terms of a deep and liquid bond market. These are all questions associated with this very important part of economic management. There is nothing new about it. It has been known for ages. It was flagged in the mid-term review, it was in all the budget papers on budget night and it was announced to the House by the Assistant Treasurer, but those people opposite are so incompetent they know nothing about it.

Joe Hockey (North Sydney, Liberal Party, Shadow Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is a supplementary question to the Treasurer and it follows on from his answer. What is the average interest rate that the government expects to pay on that debt?

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am sorry. I have given the call incorrectly to the member for North Sydney.

Mr Hockey interjecting—

No. The original question was from the Leader of the Nationals. I have indicated previously that I would give the call to the questioner if it was not the Leader of the Opposition. I clearly indicated that to the House on an earlier occasion, much to the regret of somebody else on the front bench.

Opposition members interjecting—

Order! I do not understand why those on my left would want to delay proceedings. The Leader of the Nationals is seeking the call.

Warren Truss (Wide Bay, National Party, Leader of the Nationals) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask a supplementary question of the Treasurer. What is the anticipated interest rate on these increased borrowings?

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is based on the forecast of average rates in the future in the market.