Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Prime Minister. I refer the Prime Minister to her statement yesterday:

… when I'm in a position to give people details—

about the carbon tax—

then of course I will.

Given that the details of the carbon tax have been decided, will she bring forward her carbon tax announcement to today so that this parliament can fully scrutinise the biggest structural change in our economic history?

Honourable Members:

Honourable members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Prime Minister has the call. She will be heard in silence.

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. In answer to the question by the Leader of the Opposition I can confirm that the carbon price package will be announced on Sunday. On the question of parliamentary scrutiny, I say to the Leader of the Opposition: the problem for him with this question is that he does not use question time or parliament for parliamentary scrutiny; he uses it for hurling slogans and abuse.

Honourable Members:

Honourable members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The House will come to order!

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The evidence of that, of course, is that 50 question times have been interrupted by the Leader of the Opposition pulling his stunt of the day. This means that he has lost the benefit of 136 questions as a result of pulling his stunts—his suspensions and interruptions—each and every day.

Honourable members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The House will come to order! The Prime Minister has the call.

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The last thing the Leader of the Opposition ever uses this parliament for is proper scrutiny.

Mr Pyne interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Sturt will remove himself from the chamber for one hour under standing order 94(a).

The member for Sturt then left the chamber.

Sophie Mirabella (Indi, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Innovation, Industry and Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Parliament doesn't matter anymore, does it?

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Indi will remove herself from the chamber for one hour under standing order 94(a).

The member for Indi then left the chamber.

The Prime Minister has the call. She will directly relate her remarks to the question.

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I can certainly say to the parliament and to the Australian people that there will be no lack of scrutiny of this package. I will be out day after day, following Sunday, taking every question from every Australian family who wants to ask me one. I will be travelling to all parts of the country, prepared to take questions from Australian families about how we are pricing carbon, what we are doing to assist families and what we are doing to protect jobs. I will be wearing out my shoe leather literally around the country, making sure that Australian families who want answers about the carbon-pricing package get those answers.

Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I have a supplementary question to the Prime Minister. Rather than seek free airtime next Sunday, will the Prime Minister recall the parliament next week so that she and her ministers can give the answers that the forgotten families of Australia are dem­anding right now?

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will be out next week talking to Australian families directly.

Deborah O'Neill (Robertson, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Prime Minister. How is taking action to cut carbon pollution through pricing carbon the fairest and most efficient way to reduce emissions? How will the government tax polluters and assist households as part of this change?

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for her question and I thank her too for her advocacy on behalf of the Central Coast community that she represents in this parliament. She does a great job raising their needs and concerns. Living in that very beautiful part of the world, she also understands that we as a nation need to tackle climate change and to cut carbon pollution, that the most efficient way to do that is to price carbon, that pricing carbon is the right thing to do by our environment and that it is the right thing to do by our economy so that we have the clean energy jobs of the future.

By world standards, we have a very carbon pollution intensive economy. Per head of population we generate more carbon pollution than even the people of the United States. That means that, in transforming our economy to a clean energy future, we have a big journey to go, and that is why it makes sense to start that journey soon.

Of course, we have a strong economy. We have come out of the global financial crisis with an economy that is the envy of the world, and the right time to act on a big reform is when your economy is strong. I understand that many Australian families, even whilst the economy is strong, do not necessarily see the benefits of that strong economy in their own lives, which is why we will support Australian families as we make this transition to a clean energy future, with nine out of 10 households getting tax cuts and payment increases to assist them through.

And, because we want to work with Australian families as we transition to a clean energy future, we have determined that carbon pricing will not apply at the petrol bowser. We understand that many Australian families have very little choice but to jump in their car to get places and we will not have carbon pricing apply directly to petrol.

That does mean that I have made a different choice compared with former Prime Minister John Howard. Former Prime Minister John Howard, who advocated an emissions trading scheme, had determined that he would have that scheme apply to petrol. He also made the very perceptive points that you cannot reduce greenhouse gas emissions unless you have a price on carbon. He went on to say that if you wanted to be a serious participant in this debate then you needed to acknowledge that pricing carbon came with costs. I do acknowledge that, and the biggest losers in this country will be asked to pay the price. The difference between me and the Leader of the Opposition is that he will be asking Australian families to pay the price. I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his acknowledgement on the 7.30 program last night that his policies come with a price. When he was asked whether or not the money he would be using was taxpayers' money, he said, 'Look, I accept that.'

So we know that the difference between the two plans is putting a tax on pollution and asking polluters to pay it, as opposed to putting a tax of $720 per year on Australian families. As we explain our carbon pricing package we will be explaining the assistance to Australian households, the mechanism to protect jobs and the impact of the tax on big polluters. The Leader of the Opposition will need to explain his $720-a-year tax on Australian families.

Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Prime Minister. I refer the Prime Minister to my visit to Iannelli's fruit and vegetable distribution business this morning. I ask the Prime Minister: isn't John Iannelli, the owner of the business, right when he says that a carbon tax on his trucks' diesel fuel will push up the price of fruit and vegetables to all his customers?

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I have confirmed is that carbon pricing will not apply to petrol that is used by households and by light commercial vehicles, obviously the sort of vehicles that many tradespeople use. Further details about carbon pricing will be available in coming days and to the nation on Sunday. I will be very happy to take any question from Australian families and Australian busin­esses on the impact of carbon pricing. But in this debate, whilst the government necessarily can and should be supplying the details, and we will, I believe the Leader of the Opposition should be applying the same standard to himself. For example, he was asked today on radio about his plan to plant trees as the solution to climate change. He could not tell us how many trees. I can probably assist him with the number he would need to plant.

Kevin Andrews (Menzies, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Families, Housing and Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker—

Mr Hunt interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If it would suit the convenience of the member for Flinders, is it okay for me to give the call to the member for Menzies? I would think that people would show some respect to their own side.

Kevin Andrews (Menzies, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Families, Housing and Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on direct relevance. This question was clearly about the price of carbon tax on diesel fuel in trucks—nothing else. If the Prime Minister has said that she cannot answer it now then she should stop.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The standing order was changed at the start of this parliament so that responses should directly be relevant to the question. It does not mean necessarily that responses are direct responses and I have been tolerant of argument. But I have some great sympathy to the point put by the member for Menzies and I will listen carefully to the response of the Prime Minister.

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr Speaker. As I said, the details will be available on Sunday and maybe on that day the Leader of the Opposition can explain where he is planting a forest five times the size of Tasmania.

Mike Symon (Deakin, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Treasurer. Will the Treasurer outline for the House the importance to our economy of putting a price on carbon pollution and providing assistance to households through tax cuts? How has this approach been received and what is the government's response?

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Deakin for his very important question. We on this side of the House understand the importance of tackling clim­ate change. We understand the importance of doing that for our planet but also if we want a prosperous economy for our children and grandchildren. We also understand the importance of doing this in the most efficient way, and a price on carbon is absolutely critical to provide the incentive to drive the investment in more energy-efficient practices and most particularly in renewable energy. A price on carbon is the key to a clean energy future, and to be a first-rate economy in the 21st century you have to be able to invest in clean energy. That is the point of putting a price on carbon.

We understand that this will have a modest impact on prices, and that is why we will provide assistance to households and also assistance to support jobs. That is why we will support nine in 10 households, who will receive a combination of tax cuts, increases in family payments and pension increases. For those on the lowest incomes we will provide a battlers' buffer to make sure that those people are looked after. This will come on top of the tax cuts that have already been provided: three rounds of tax cuts over the past few years, where a person on $50,000 now pays $1,750 less tax and a person on $80,000 now pays $1,400 less tax. We will build on that to provide further assistance to households. There is one very clear difference here: we will put a price on carbon for the up to 1,000 largest polluters and use that revenue to support households and businesses. What those opposite will do is tax households and hand the money to the largest polluters. That will cost the average household something like $720 per year. That will be like sending cheques for $720 from Australian households to all of the largest polluters in our country. So there is a very clear choice between both of these policies. But the Leader of the Opposition cannot account for any of this. As former Treasurer Peter Costello said, 'He was never one to be held back by the financial consequences of his decisions.'

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Treasurer will return to the question. The Treasurer still has the call, but the Treasurer will be directly relevant to the question.

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am, Mr Speaker. I am putting forward our approach to climate change and I am comparing that with the views of others, which is precisely what I was asked about.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Treasurer will resume his seat. I have commented upon the point that, yes, the questions are cleverly framed, but if we look closely it is how the government's response is received and what is the government's response to the reception to the government's actual policies. So I think we should be very careful. There are certain things that I will endeavour to do in this place: get people to actually listen to the responses and once we can hear the responses we will then narrow the focus of those responses so that they are more directly relevant. We will then, I think, have a better question time. The Treasurer has the call and he will be listened to in silence.

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

These are very big reforms and they do deserve a serious and considered debate. In our nation 25 years ago there were those who were opposed to the floating of the dollar, to the tearing down of the tariff wall and to the introduction of superannuation. Now, 25 years on, there is no serious policy maker—

Luke Hartsuyker (Cowper, National Party, Deputy Manager of Opposition Business in the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The Treasurer is quite clearly defying your ruling to be directly relevant to the question. He was actually asked how this was received, and the reality is that it has not been received very well.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The member for Cowper will resume his place. He is now warned. We note that he has used his point of order to make a point, as well as the point of order. He is rewarded by only getting a warning. The Treasurer has the call and I am sure that, whilst he has 35 seconds, he will be bringing his answer to a conclusion well within those 35 seconds.

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There can be no reform more important to our nation, to our economy and to our environment than reducing carbon pollution in our environ­ment. No reform can be more important than that. So, this is a worthwhile reform. It is a reform that is worth fighting for and it does deserve the most serious consideration in this House. That is what we are doing. We are putting forward our principles and we are comparing them with the lack of policy from those opposite.

Judi Moylan (Pearce, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Treasurer. I refer the Treasurer to the work of the landscape gardener who drives to work in a diesel powered ute and uses a heavy backhoe for larger earthworks, a bobcat for small earthworks, a chainsaw for pruning trees and various other small petrol powered machines such as lawnmowers. Which parts of the landscaper's business will be subject to the carbon tax on fuel and which parts will be exempt?

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker—

Opposition Members:

Opposition members interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Treasurer will resume his seat. Again, it is not for me to make a critique about the questions. But for those who claim that it was a good question I would have thought that they would sit there quietly to listen to the response. The Treasurer has the call.

Peter Dutton (Dickson, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Ageing) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Suck that water down, Swanny!

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Dickson! The Treasurer has the call.

Peter Dutton (Dickson, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Ageing) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He is very nervous.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Dickson is warned. The Treasurer has the call.

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The government made it very clear last night that on Sunday we will be announcing all of the details of our plans to reduce carbon pollution. We have already said that all fuel—including petrol, diesel and LPG—for passenger motor vehicles and light commercial vehicles will not be subject to a carbon price. We also said in this House yesterday that we will be providing further detail, and that further detail will be coming on Sunday. They can ask all of the questions they like, but the further detail will be there on Sunday.

We have always acknowledged that by putting a price on the carbon pollution of up to 1,000 of our largest polluters there will be a modest impact on prices. That is why we have said we are providing additional assistance to households and to industry, particularly industry that is energy intensive and trade exposed. All of the detail will be out there for people to see on Sunday. I have said before that this is a very big and very serious reform and it should be treated in the same way as other very big and serious reforms in the past.

Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, a point of order on direct relevance: the question was not about the so-called thousand biggest polluters, it was about this landscape gardener and the fuel that this landscape gardener uses, and if the Treasurer cannot answer that question he should simply sit down.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Treasurer will respond in a directly relevant manner to the question.

Wayne Swan (Lilley, Australian Labor Party, Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was making the point that in the past, when very big and serious reforms have been put forward in this country, they have been the subject of similar scare campaigns that are now being run by those opposite, and we will get a diet of them right through question time today and tomorrow. All of the detail will be out there on Sunday, and I have to say that very clearly to them. But nobody seriously questions those reforms today, and I would suggest that in 25 years time we will look back and question why anybody questioned the science of climate change, let alone the wisdom of pricing carbon.