Tanya Plibersek (Sydney, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Prime Minister. Shane Townsend is a full-time security guard, who works the night shift to earn about $24,000 a year in penalty rates. Shane's mother is on an age pension and his brother is on a disability pension, and both live with Shane. Without penalty rates, Shane says they would be 'out on the street'. Given the Prime Minister's previous answer, can the Prime Minister confirm that any changes to penalty rates will only happen if Shane volunteers to have his pay cut?

Ms Henderson interjecting—

Tony Smith (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Corangamite will cease interjecting.

Malcolm Turnbull (Wentworth, Liberal Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The honourable member seems to be persevering in a line of questioning that is clearly embarrassing the Leader of the Opposition. I make no further comment on that, but it is very well known that when the Leader of the Opposition was the National Secretary of the Australian Workers Union he negotiated, in a package deal, the penalty rates for workers working for Clean Event.

Ms Chesters interjecting—

Tony Smith (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Bendigo!

Malcolm Turnbull (Wentworth, Liberal Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have no doubt that the honourable member, the honourable Leader of the Opposition, in his capacity as a union leader, did so because he thought, overall, the package was a better deal.

As I have said, and as is the case with Fair Work Australia, plainly workers or their representatives will not agree to changes to penalty rates unless it is in the context of a better overall deal, and that is plainly the case. One Labor member after another, in their days as union officials, has done exactly that. So the fact of the matter is that the honourable member knows that this scare campaign they are trying to run flies in the face of the lived experience of millions of Australian workers who are smart enough to know that, in any industrial agreement, there are gives and takes, and the aim always is to end up with an outcome that is a win-win.

So it is not for us to tell unions—or, indeed, their workers, or employers—how to negotiate agreements. I have no doubt that the honourable Leader of the Opposition or, indeed, the member for Port Adelaide and other members who were union officials when they negotiated these arrangements sought to do so in a way that ensured that workers were better off, employers were better off and overall it was a win-win. That is what flexible workplaces are all about.

Tony Smith (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Before I call the next question, the member for Bendigo is warned. I have cautioned her about interjecting. She interjected continually during that answer.