Patrick Gorman (Perth, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That this House:

(1) notes that:

(a) the captioned telephone handset, CapTel, is a popular service amongst the Australian deaf and hard of hearing community;

(b) according to the Department of Communications there are approximately 4,000 CapTel handset users in Australia;

(c) the average age of people using the service is 80; and

(d) with an increasing ageing population, it can be expected more and more Australians will need to rely on this service to communicate;

(2) acknowledges the distress and loss that CapTel users and their families are experiencing due to the planned discontinuation of the CapTel service in February 2020;

(3) condemns the Government for its decision to:

(a) remove the CapTel service without any consultation with its users; and

(b) purchase an inferior, outdated, and less user-friendly product, forcing often elderly users to learn a new piece of technology or lose the ability to communicate; and

(4) encourages CapTel users and their families to contact their federal member of parliament to explain to them the importance of the CapTel service for the deaf and hard of hearing community of Australia.

Andrew Wallace (Fisher, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is there a seconder for the motion?

Pat Conroy (Shortland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for International Development and the Pacific) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I second the motion and reserve my right to speak.

Andrew Wallace (Fisher, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The question is that the motion be agreed to, and I give the call to the member for Perth.

Patrick Gorman (Perth, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Being disconnected is a horrible feeling: that anxiety when you think you've lost your phone, or when you run out of battery and you're out at dinner, or—as we experienced in this place just last Thursday—when you get an SMS to tell you that the email server is down and they don't know when it's going to be put back into service. The government's handling of the CapTel service is worse than any of these feelings. It has left hundreds of Australians feeling disconnected and uncertain about whether the government actually understands how this service works or what they use it for.

I moved this motion because of a woman in my electorate, Peggy, who lives in Inglewood, just around the corner from my electorate office. She wrote to me and said: 'I can't believe the government is shutting down this service.' When I first read her letter I thought: 'I think and I hope that Peggy is wrong.' But Peggy was 100 per cent right.

The government is sending the users of the CapTel service back to using 1980s technology. I loved my Nintendo Entertainment System as much as anyone. I loved Game Boy and its old-school physical link cable. And I played—I can't remember the name of it—that helicopter game you played on the Apple Mac classic, the first computer to come into my household. I loved all of those pieces of technology. But I don't use them in 2020. This is like asking people who rely on this service to use Betamax to watch a 4K movie.

There are so many people who have been using their voice on this issue for a number of months now. I commend the Facebook group Save CapTel, who have been campaigning vigorously and enthusiastically, trying to get their voice heard. These are people who rely on services that thankfully most of us in this place don't need to rely on to be able to communicate with the outside world. You get a sense of desperation from the users of this service. Joan writes on the Facebook group: 'I lost my CapTel service yesterday and the alternative on offer was so antiquated and difficult to navigate I refused to accept it.' These are long-term users of this service refusing to accept the dodgy alternative being provided by the government. Karen writes: 'The new system is not available for my father because he is in a nursing home. It means no more phone conversations for us. I live in a different state to him. He is 93. He may never hear me again.' And Nola writes: 'I need my CapTel phone. It's the only way I can ring anyone.'

Another person who has been in contact with my office is Dr Alex Harrison. He told me: 'I am the first and only profoundly deaf veterinarian in Australia. I use my CapTel phone every day.' He uses it for his work. Now that it's not available he is relying on FaceTime and other devices, which causes a lot of problems for some of his customers as, if they're not on the Apple network, he can't communicate with them. He says that he's had to wait in queues for an operator. He can't be waiting for 30 minutes on this dodgy second-rate service to talk to a pet owner in an emergency situation. For those of us who love our pets, for those of us for whom they are members of our family, to be stuck in a situation like that—again, because of the government trying to make a small, insignificant saving on an important service—is simply not good enough. That saving? Eight million dollars. They are cutting the service. What they save doesn't, in any way, justify cutting the quality of the service. Surely, if the government wanted to find efficiencies, they could have found many more places to start than switching off the CapTel service on 1 February this year.

I want to commend the member for Greenway, the shadow minister for communications, for her ongoing advocacy on this matter. She's been a champion for CapTel users, fighting to protect vulnerable Australians from these cuts. I want to end with a quote that I think sums things up. The minister for communications part-acknowledged what the problem is, but, in saying that he acknowledged it was hard, he said:

I certainly acknowledge any transition of this kind is challenging, particularly for older Australians who may not be as familiar with technology.

The reality is that it has been challenging—so challenging, in fact, that Australians have had to rely on the charity of a US corporation—that is, the CapTel service provider—to continue this service while the government continues to sort out a mess entirely of its own making.

Andrew Wallace (Fisher, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Perth. The question is that the motion be agreed to. I give the call to the member for Shortland.

Pat Conroy (Shortland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for International Development and the Pacific) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak on this excellent motion by the member for Perth, which notes the importance of the CapTel handset to at least 4,000 people in the Australian hearing impaired community and condemns the government for removing this important service without consultation. I thank the excellent member of Perth for moving this motion. I note the fact that not a single government member has the guts or intestinal fortitude to get up and defend their decision. The new member for Curtin—probably in an act of being new to this place—put her name on the list to speak about this and suddenly she's been detained.

Government Members:

Government members interjecting—

Pat Conroy (Shortland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for International Development and the Pacific) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I look forward to her coming up after the member for Newcastle. There are a couple more speaking slots and I look forward to her coming up to defend this appalling decision by the government after I and the member for Newcastle speak. The truth is that this heartless Morrison government is making life harder for Australians with a hearing impairment, particularly older Australians who have lost their hearing altogether. Like many others in this place, since mid last year I've been contacted by constituents with a hearing impairment who are alarmed and distressed at the news that, from February this year, they are no longer able to use their CapTel phone service. February is here and we've seen some panicked reactions by the minister for communications, but no satisfactory solution for elderly deaf Australians and their families. Why on earth would this government remove access to the CapTel handset from the National Relay Service? The answer is, quite simply: budget cuts. Some Australians have come to rely on this service. People in my electorate such as Noel, aged 85, who has cancer, relies on CapTel to make medical and transport appointments. Maree, aged 77, has partial hearing but relies on CapTel to make sure appointment details are accurate. Andrina, aged 69, still has some hearing and can enjoy the sound of her grandchildren's voices but relies on CapTel for adult conversations. John is aged 70, and his wife had a long career as a teacher but lost all confidence when she lost her hearing. With CapTel she has confidence to make her own appointments. Marilyn, aged 75, relies on CapTel to keep in touch with her daughter. Paul, aged 86, needs CapTel to call the ambulance when his wife collapses. And Kathy, aged 63, says CapTel has changed her life. She is no longer socially isolated because of her deafness and can manage her own affairs. All this is being ripped away by this government.

The minister has not taken responsibility for his appalling decision. He's so far blamed the 2013 Labor government, the Public Service and the previous National Relay Service provider, and he's now blaming the American company that licenses the technology, all because the government won't admit this debacle is its own fault. All we are seeing is cost-cutting. The communications minister did expect and acknowledged that the transition to this new and, as we've discovered, inferior technology would be challenging, particularly for older Australians, who may not be as familiar with technology. He said the migration to alternative services would be supported by 'extensive training, information and transition', including in some cases 'in-home assistance'. What does this training look like? In the words of one of my constituents from Valentine:

Since my last email I have had a government trainee to my house.

The National Relay Service is useless!

No one from NRS answers and you have to use a log on every 18 hours.

My lovely helper in the home from the government rang me through the NRS and we both chatted for ages ... no, not on the phone, side by side, while waiting for the NRS to answer!!

Eventually she—

the NRS worker—

had to hang up but said the on hold music was very nice.

And how would other people know how to ring us through the NRS?

So I tried the Live Transcribe option holding one mobile screen up against the speaker on the other mobile

This does a great job of transcribing what I've said, but I know what I'm saying …

It was absolutely hopeless, useless, for transcribing the caller.

Mostly nothing came up, but if a few words did they were incorrect anyway.

My constituent goes on to say:

This Liberal Government has no empathy whatsoever. They cannot have even got any experts to look into this to see if it would actually work.

He or she finishes by saying:

PLEASE SAVE CAPTEL.

This is what happens when a government fails to plan. This is what happens when a government does not care—when a government puts the budget bottom line ahead of Australians who need support. Elderly and deaf Australians deserve so much better than this, and I condemn the government for its heartless treatment of these 4,000 Australians. I dare the minister to come to my electorate and meet with some of my constituents who have broken down in tears, explaining what this service meant to them. Shame on this government for attacking so many vulnerable Australians.

Sharon Claydon (Newcastle, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Perth for bringing this important issue before the House today, and my colleague the member for Shortland, who preceded me, for his contribution to this debate. It's very disappointing that we don't have any government members speaking to this motion tonight. I understand it's difficult—indeed, probably embarrassing—to try and defend this cruel and harsh decision. But what we really need now is government members with the courage to say, 'We got it wrong and we're going to fix this and overturn this cruel and harsh decision.' This is an issue that has caused great distress to so many people in my community. The Morrison government has cut the National Relay Service budget from $30 million to $22 million, making it nearly impossible for any provider to continue offering all of the existing services, and resulting in the end of the much-loved CapTel service. I have received pleas from a number of deaf and hearing-impaired Novocastrians who have told me of their profound distress at the prospect of losing this service.

Today I would like to share with the House the story of Mr Roy Bisson, from Maryville in my electorate of Newcastle. Once a week, Mr Bisson does what many parents do; he settles down for a chat on the phone with his son. They don't get to see each other very often in person because his son has a busy life as an electrician in Sydney. But they enjoy their Sunday morning chats, when they get to catch up on everything that's been happening in each other's lives over the week. This is especially precious to Roy because he has only 20 per cent hearing in his right ear and a cochlear implant in his left. In order to communicate by phone, Roy has been using CapTel, which provides real-time captions for every word in the conversation. But, sadly, all this is at risk, thanks to the Morrison government's cruel and small-minded budget cuts.

Mr Bisson wrote to me about this senseless cut last year. He wanted me to know how it would hurt him and thousands of other deaf Australians, and he asked me to advocate for him with the government. In his letter, Mr Bisson wrote:

Like thousands of Australians with hearing loss, the CapTel handset has provided with me a reliable and effective option for communicating by telephone for more than two years.

It provides me with a level of independence and freedom not offered by alternatives like the Internet Relay Function and web-browser captioned relay which require pre-planning to make and receive calls.

The Government's decision to stop supporting the CapTel handsets is unfair and will discriminate against thousands of Australians who rely on CapTel in both their work and personal lives.

I believe this is an important point. This Liberal government says it's all about giving people a go if they have a go, and yet it is shutting down the very service that allows deaf and hearing-impaired Australians to do just that. Mr Bisson summed up his letter with this strong statement:

CapTel must remain available so that all Australians with hearing loss or impairment can participate in our society on an equal basis and stay connected to the people we care about.

Hear, hear, Mr Bisson. It's hard to imagine what an isolating experience the loss of CapTel would be for Mr Bisson and other deaf and hearing-impaired Australians, and it's impossible to see how the government can justify this callous cut.

The decision by Ultratec to continue supporting Australian CapTel handsets as an interim measure is testament to the strong community campaign against these cuts. But it should not be up to a private company to make up for the Morrison government's bad decisions—and it's still only a temporary reprieve. I've written to the minister multiple times on this matter, and, each time, I just get the stock-standard response—and no adequate solution for the deaf people in my community. My Labor colleagues and I understand the profound importance of CapTel to deaf and hearing-impaired Australians. CapTel offers Australians the ability to communicate more easily, a greater quality of life and an improved sense of safety. It's time for the Morrison government to stop the buck-passing and to do what's necessary to secure ongoing access to CapTel. I look forward to a government member rising to make a contribution on this debate: to admit to deaf and hearing-impaired Australians that the government got it wrong and that they're prepared to stand up and fix it.

Rebekha Sharkie (Mayo, Centre Alliance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak on this motion. Whilst I appreciate that the government put the National Relay Service, the NRS, out to competitive tender in order to curtail significant budget overruns, I am concerned that this attempt to rein in costs will have a profound impact on older Australians with a hearing impairment. The government's tender process has reduced operational spending on the NRS by 20 per cent to $20 million at a time when the number of older Australians—those aged over 65—with a hearing impairment has increased by around 20 per cent, to more than 1.2 million.

Technology is evolving at a rapid pace and we as a society are the beneficiaries of these advances. However, there are some within our community, including older Australians, who do not benefit from technological changes, either through access, capacity or choice. That's not to say that all seniors are not tech-savvy, because, of course, many are. But when I consider the feedback from my community regarding changes in technology, whether that's the rollout of the NBN or the pressure to do online banking due to bank branches closing, it is usually the elderly who express their anger and confusion at being forced to migrate to a technology they don't want to use.

CapTel is a telephone service that provides live captioning on a special handset and, until 1 February, it was provided under the NRS. This motion says that there were 4,000 CapTel users in Australia according to the Department of Communications figures. The minister says there were 1,722 active users as of October 2019. I've been unable to ascertain exactly how many CapTel users live in my community. But I have been contacted by some of those affected by this decision, including Dr Alex Harrison of Flagstaff Hill, a veterinarian, for whom CapTel was a game changer in dealing with clients after he signed up in 2017. Dr Harrison says that CapTel provides him with a level of independence and freedom not offered by alternatives, such as the Internet Relay function and web-browser Captioned Relay, that require pre-planning to make and receive telephone calls. Dr Harrison is Australia's first profoundly deaf veterinarian and, as a person with a hearing impairment, he says he's tired of fighting for every little thing.

The average age of a CapTel user is actually 82 years. Mrs Smith-Beale, who lives in the Adelaide Hills, is 83. She doesn't own a computer and she's worried that, without CapTel, her world will pass her by. CapTel is the preferred medium for communication by older Australians with hearing impairments, with around 70 per cent of CapTel clients aged over 70. My electorate of Mayo has the highest median age of any federal seat in South Australia, currently standing at 46 years of age, and nearly 23 per cent of my community is aged over 65. There are some parts of my community, such as Goolwa and Victor Harbour, where around 40 per cent of the population are aged over 65. I'm concerned that older Australians will be disproportionately affected by the new NRS arrangements, which, in the main, are delivered online. Some older people in my community are comfortable with using internet devices, but many older people are not. If you are an older person familiar with using the CapTel telephone service, it is unreasonable to then require them to keep their computer connected to the internet at all times—that's assuming that older people have a computer—in case they need to make an emergency medical call. I'm concerned that the removal of CapTel from the National Relay Service will not adequately serve the needs of the growing number of older Australians with hearing impairments.

I appreciate that governments have to work to budget and that this government wasn't happy about the cost blowouts with CapTel through the company that had the exclusive rights to use the technology in Australia—I understand that. I note that the owners of CapTel and Ultratec are continuing to support CapTel handsets independently of the NRS. Ultratec has not indicated how long this arrangement will last. But, as this motion states, I want to acknowledge the distress caused by the discontinuation of CapTel, and I call on the government to continue to work constructively with Ultratec and the current NRS provider to strike a suitable financial agreement. We can't leave so many people with hearing impairments in Australia without a voice.

Celia Hammond (Curtin, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Perth has raised a number of valid points in this motion, but I completely disagree with his criticism of the government on this matter. I also understand comments have been made by previous speakers as to the government not speaking on the matter. This would seem to be regrettable, opportunistic and political pointscoring, as I am about to speak on it right now.

I would like to acknowledge the popularity of the CapTel service among the Australian deaf and hard-of-hearing community, including in my electorate of Curtin. In fact, a number of constituents have contacted me with their concerns about having to move from a CapTel service to a new service. I understand, as does the government, their concerns about having to learn how to use a new system and whether or not it will provide a service which they need. But I would also note that the government has been diligent and proactive in responding to the concerns which have been raised and that if any condemnation needs to be made here, it should not be sheeted towards the government.

To understand this issue, context is needed. The CapTel service is just one of 19 services offered through the National Relay Service. The National Relay Service, funded by the Australian government to the tune of $22 million per annum, is a very important communications service for Australians in our communities who are deaf, who are hard of hearing or who have a speech impairment, as it allows them to make and receive phone calls through what is called a relay call. The NRS is available 24 hours a day every day and relays more than a million calls each year throughout Australia.

There are a number of ways in which the relay calls can work and a number of different devices which are used within the NRS to facilitate this. The CapTel handset is just one of them. The appropriate device is determined by the impairment or the need of the user. Since November 2019 services through the NRS have been transitioning from the previous relay service provider, Australian Communication Exchange, to Concentrix. The decision to move from ACE to Concentrix was made following two tender processes conducted for the NRS in 2018 and 2019. The minister has been very clear on numerous occasions as to why the government put the NRS out to tender. The minister has also been very clear on numerous occasions as to why the incumbent provider, ACE, was not successful.

In relation to the continued usage of CapTel, what is important to note here is that the government did not seek to exclude the CapTel handset from the new service. ACE was the only tenderer which could offer the CapTel handset because they held exclusive Australian rights to the technology, and they sought to leverage that exclusivity by almost doubling the cost per minute of providing the NRS services. This situation was compounded by the fact that the owner of the CapTel system declined to deal with other NRS tenderers, including Concentrix. On this point, the minister has made it very clear that if the owners of CapTel's system are willing to work with Concentrix, and if they are willing to make an acceptable offer to Concentrix, the government stands ready to support the continuation of the service to current CapTel handset users, whether on a commercial basis or as part of a sustainable NRS.

At this point in time it is unclear whether the commercial parties involved here will come to the party. Because we don't want vulnerable Australians to be caught up in a company's commercial negotiations, the government are encouraging CapTel users to continue to migrate to either NRS supported alternatives or other options. And, yes, I agree with the member for Perth that many of the elderly users in our community can find it difficult learning to use the new technology. Although I would also say: let's not underestimate them. That's why the government have been working with and will continue to work with CapTel handset users to move to other services which will meet their needs. I will note here that 700 users have received in-home assistance and training to make this transition.

The Morrison government is fully committed to keeping those who are deaf, hearing impaired or speech impaired connected through a fully funded, efficient and sustainable National Relay Service. It will continue to monitor the situation and ensure that assistance is provided wherever required for whoever needs it and that it gets put in place.

David Gillespie (Lyne, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The time allotted for this debate has expired. The debate is adjourned and the resumption of the debate will be made an order of the day for the next sitting.