Bill Shorten (Maribyrnong, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is for the Minister for Government Services. In March 2017, the Administrative Appeals Tribunal found there was no legal basis for the method used by the government to raise robodebts. When did the minister know robodebt was illegal?

Stuart Robert (Fadden, Liberal Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for his question. As I've said previously in the House and as the Ombudsman's report accurately reflects, the use of income averaging to raise debts has been a longstanding practice of government. Indeed, it is so longstanding that, in 2009, 16 per cent of debts raised from a sample of 500 were raised solely or partially using income averaging, and in 2011 that jumped up; 24 per cent of debts that year were raised wholly or partially from income averaging. That was done from a sample of 500, which demonstrates the longstanding nature of this practice, and those ministers in 2009 and 2011—

Tony Smith (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Before I recognise the member for Maribyrnong, I was just about to intervene and say, as I've said to the minister before, that he's entitled to a preamble, but that's now approaching a minute. The question was very tight. It had a statement of fact that was necessary for the specific question and there was no commentary or debate in the matter. So, as I said, the minister is entitled to a preamble, but he now needs to bring himself to the specifics of the question or wind up his answer.

Stuart Robert (Fadden, Liberal Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Since it was such a longstanding practice to use averaged income data from the ATO, as soon as I was informed, I moved expeditiously to halt the program. I announced that on 19 November last year. I did a press conference to say that I had—

Tony Smith (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister will resume his seat. The member for Maribyrnong is entitled to seek the call. The member for Maribyrnong on a point of order.

Bill Shorten (Maribyrnong, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is relevance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Robert interjecting—

Mr Bowen interjecting—

Tony Smith (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Hang on! The minister and the member for McMahon can cease their animated discussion and I'll hear the point of order. The member for Maribyrnong.

Bill Shorten (Maribyrnong, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of relevance, it was: when did the minister find out it was unlawful, not when did he decide to do something about it or tell us publicly? When did the minister know robodebt was unlawful? It's a date, Stewie.

Tony Smith (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Maribyrnong needs to refer to members by their correct titles. Those last words were unnecessary to his point of order.

An honourable member interjecting—

No, I make the point seriously, because, when the football turns over and the boot's on the other foot, people tend not to like it. Not everyone likes their nickname. The minister does need to address himself to the specifics of the question or wind up his answer.

Stuart Robert (Fadden, Liberal Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said last week in the House and this week in the House, as soon as I was informed, I moved expeditiously to inform the Australian people. That date was 19 November.