Tony Smith (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I've received a letter from the honourable member for Kingston proposing that a definite matter of public importance be submitted to the House for discussion, namely:

The government’s failure to control child care fees and support Australian families.

I call upon those members who approve of the proposed discussion to rise in their places.

More than the number of members required by the standing orders having risen in their places—

Amanda Rishworth (Kingston, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Early Childhood Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If you listen to this government's rhetoric that Australian families have never been better off, it is far from the truth of the lived experiences of families right around this country. Australian families are groaning under the burden of the cost of child care. The Morrison government's spin cannot deny the cold, hard facts. We know that long day care fees went up by 2.4 per cent in 2020. Those on the other side might say this is a real coup, but, of course, that included four months of free child care. That has put a huge burden on Australian families. The fees have been hiked up by 9.3 per cent under Scott Morrison's new childcare subsidy. Under the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government, fees are now up by 37.2 per cent since their election.

This government doesn't like to talk about the fee increase data. It likes to refer to the ABS index of out-of-pockets costs. The government has regularly used this in this chamber as bragging rights for how good their new system is. Of course, if we use that figure, the ABS has now released and shown that the index is even higher under the new system. Out-of-pocket costs in this country, on average, have never been as high as they are under this government. Costs soared by 2.2 per cent in the March quarter of 2021, which is three times the rate of inflation. This shows that childcare costs are eating a bigger and bigger hole in household budgets and putting more financial stress and strain on Australian families. The cost of child care is having real impacts in other ways. Research released today by the Front Project, based on a survey of 1,700 families, found that 73 per cent of families say the cost of child care is a barrier to them having more children. Families are deciding not to have more children because of the cost of child care. Fifty-two per cent agreed that, once the cost is factored in, it's hardly worth working. This is the lived experience of Australian families. No matter how many times the coalition wants to tell them that the cost isn't that high, they're only paying such and such per hour and they've never been better off, that is not the lived experience of Australian families, and the government should not insult their intelligence by trying to say otherwise.

Labor knows the government's system is busted. That is why we have announced an ambitious plan to make child care cheaper for one million Australian families. Despite the government bragging over the last number of years that families have never been better off, their system is great and there were no eroding out-of-pocket costs, they have suddenly, in this budget, been dragged kicking and screaming into an admission that their system—Scott Morrison's system—has indeed failed. But like everything with this government, when they were putting together their response in the budget after mounting pressure from economists, families, business—from everyone, really—they focused on the announcement and not on getting the policy right. In fact, they didn't listen to any of the groups calling for long-term change. What they did was cook up something that no-one had suggested. No-one had suggested this policy. They even made a childcare centre open on Sunday—childcare centres are not open on Sundays, Minister—and made some families come in on the weekend so they could get the cameras and the TV crews in just to spruik their system. There is not enough time on the policy, too much time on the announcement.

The problem with the government's announcement—one of the many problems with the government's announcement—is that it will not see an extra cent of support in the subsidy increases for three-quarters of the families using the system. Families paying out-of-school or after-school-hours or vacation care costs don't get extra help from this government. The government has picked and chosen which families deserve support and which don't. We hear time and time again from families that this just isn't fair. The government is once again ignoring the lived experience. The government has announced a complex and restrictive policy that only benefits families who have in care at least two children below school age. We are still not sure. I asked the minister yesterday in consideration in detail whether, if a 4½ year old was in after-school-hours care, they would attract an extra subsidy. He hasn't been able to answer that on television, and he wasn't able to answer it yesterday.

An analysis comparing Labor and Liberal childcare policies shows unequivocally that Labor's policy provides more support for more families for longer. Indeed, 86 per cent of all families with children under the age of six in the system would be better off under Labor's policy. The families of children in after-school-hours care or in vacation care would get more support under Labor. Every single family with one child aged five or under in care—that's 727,000 families—with a combined family income less than $530,000 will receive no extra support in their childcare subsidy under this Liberal government but they would under Labor. The vast majority of families with a combined family income between $69,000 and $174,000 with two children in child care would be better off under Labor. So people should not fall for the rhetoric of this government. The government will come up and say, 'Ours is more targeted. We want to help families in a targeted way.' That means if you've got one child in care or you're a low- or middle-income earner with two children in care the government won't support you as much as Labor will. That's the truth of it. Don't be mistaken by this government's spin.

In addition, extra support that the Liberals do provide to families with two or more children is only temporary. With their complex system this extra support is ripped away as soon as the child goes to school, somehow suggesting that families don't need the extra support in after-school-hours care or vacation care and, indeed, that having one child in child care is actually quite a significant cost. In contrast, Labor's boost in support will be provided to every child for the entire time they are in care. We will move towards a universal 90 per cent childcare system. We will also get the ACCC to design a price regulation mechanism that will shed a light on costs and fees and drive them down for good.

It's no wonder that the Prime Minister was too embarrassed to turn up at the announcement of the government's new childcare policy, because it was he himself who designed the failed current system. He handballed that to the Treasurer, and the Treasurer hasn't spoken about it since. I'm so pleased that the Minister for Education and Youth is going to do the MPI today, because, since the announcement, we haven't seen him get out and proudly talk about the childcare announcement. We haven't seen a question in question time for some time. Even when the Minister for Women is asked about economic security the government won't talk about their childcare policy. That's because they've realised it's a dud. Families around the country have realised it's a dud. This was about papering over a failed system, trying to paper over the criticism that has come from all quarters and make this issue go away. Of course, the government didn't take it that seriously. Guess when their policy starts. You'd think maybe on 1 July coming they'd like to give families some relief, that, if they've acknowledged it's a problem, they would give families relief on 1 July this year. But this policy doesn't start until 1 July 2022. That is actually after an election. It's actually the same date that we propose to start our policy, if we're elected.

Clearly, this government is all crocodile tears when it comes to the cost of child care. In one breath they say, 'Families have never been better off,' and in the next breath they say, 'We'll tinker around with the system, because we're under increasing pressure.' This is really about fixing mistakes. It is really about trying to paper over a failed childcare system, and it will not lead to proper long-term change. It won't lead to long-term relief for families. It won't even lead to workforce productivity. In fact, the budget papers show that workforce participation is actually going to go down. This government has designed a childcare policy that reduces workforce participation not boost it. This government could not design a childcare policy if their life depended on it. We need a Labor government to introduce cheaper child care. (Time expired)

Alan Tudge (Aston, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Youth) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The first thing I'd say is that I'm not going to be lectured to by the opposition in relation to childcare fees. When they were in government, childcare fees went up 53 per cent, and in one year alone they went up by 14.5 per cent, so we're not going to be taking lectures in relation to childcare fees from those opposite. The greatest support their current policy will provide is literally to those people who are earning $360,000 or more. It really says something about the modern-day Labor Party when that is their target.

Our policy completely reformed the childcare system three years ago and put in place a system which is based on those who have the most means getting the least amount of assistance and those who have the least means getting the most amount of assistance all the way up to 85 per cent of fees. In some cases, the full fees can be taken care of by the government. What we've done, as part of this package, is put in place an activity test. That was in recognition of the fact that the childcare system, by and large, is there to support parents, particularly women, who want to go back to the workforce, are volunteering their efforts or are seeking a job. If they're doing any one of those activities, they can get support through our childcare system. Furthermore, we introduced a fee cap, which puts downward pressure on those fees. I point out that 87 per cent of childcare fees are still below that fee cap.

Has this worked? Has our record extra funding into child care worked? Absolutely. I'll point out some of the data. We've increased funding by 77 per cent since coming to office. Firstly, 280,000 more families have children in child care than when we came to office. Secondly, we have record workforce participation rates amongst women. Today the figures came out. The female participation rate is 61.7 per cent. That's at record levels, even higher than before the pandemic began. Something is working in terms of our childcare policy.

I point out that the out-of-pocket expenses for our childcare system are still on average a dollar down per hour than what they were only a few years ago, before we introduced our policy. At the end of the day, that's what matters. It's not the fees overall that matter. It is the out-of-pocket expenses which matter—the fees charged by the childcare centre minus the subsidy which the government provides. The out-of-pocket expenses are still down $1, on average, compared to what they were before we introduced our massive reform back in 2018, which completely transformed the childcare system. What does this mean now in terms of what everyday families are paying for child care? I can tell you that the average out-of-pocket expense that parents pay today is $3.93 per hour. I can also inform the House that a quarter of all families are paying less than $2 per hour for their child care. The taxpayer makes up, on average, the other $8 per hour. This makes it affordable for a great many families to participate in child care, should they choose to do so. As I've pointed out, there are actually now 280,000 more families who are taking advantage of this.

What we have acknowledged—and we acknowledged this in the budget this year—is that, even if the fees are relatively low on a per-hour basis, if you have more than one child in child care, those fees can still add up. Consequently, we introduced quite a targeted new measure in this year's budget. That measure was to provide an additional subsidy for families who have a second and third child in the childcare system. It applies to all children who are five years and under, to answer the member for Kingston's previous question. What does this mean for the average family? For families with an income of $110,000, which is the median income for families in the childcare system, they'll be about $120 per week—almost $6,000 per year—better off under our scheme if they have two children in full-time child care. It makes a real difference to those families who have two or more children in child care. That's when the costs add up, when you've got multiple children in the childcare system, even if you are paying just $2 per hour.

I want to draw a contrast here between what our policy is and what Labor's policy is. Our policy has been deliberately designed, in its overall structure, to be targeted at those who need it most. For those who are of very significant means, earning $360,000 or more per year, they don't get a cent of childcare subsidies, because we believe that a family earning $360,000 or more should be able to pay for their own child care.

Now, the contrast is stark here because the Labor Party policy, incredibly, is to provide childcare subsidies of 90 per cent to every single family across Australia. This means that the greatest beneficiaries of their childcare policy are those families earning $360,000 or more. What does this mean? A family could be on $500,000 a year and, if they have two children in child care, under our policy they don't get a cent of subsidy. Under the Labor Party policy they will be getting $50,000 worth of taxpayer funded child care if they have two children in full-time care. This is the modern Labor Party, where the greatest beneficiaries of their childcare policy are those people earning $500,000, $1 million or more.

What's more, that family earning $500,000 who's got a couple of kids in full-time care and is now getting $50,000 in free child care under the Labor Party won't even have an activity test. They don't even have to be working. They could be doing whatever they like during the day but just decide they want to have their children in child care during the week, and it is no problem. Under the Labor Party, the taxpayer will subsidise them for that. We find that astounding, but it actually goes to the very heart of why the Labor Party is in such disarray at the moment—

Ms Rishworth interjecting —

Llew O'Brien (Wide Bay, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Kingston is warned!

Alan Tudge (Aston, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Youth) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We have such a split in the Labor Party. It's clearly the inner-city elites who are driving this policy. They want to fund the child care of those people earning a million dollars or more. And, I tell you what, ask those members who are in seats that are more working class whether or not they think that's a fair policy. I dare say they do not.

But we know who's in charge of the Labor Party these days, and it ain't the old working class that used to be in charge of the Labor Party under Bob Hawke. No, it's the new, modern elites. They drive the policy on climate change. They drive the policy on immigration. They drive the policy of putting taxes up and everything. They drive the policy of the greatest beneficiaries of their childcare policy being those who are earning a million dollars or more.

Our childcare policy has been working. We acknowledge that for many families there's still an impost—that they have to dig in and they have to be able to find those additional means to pay for the child care which they in many cases desperately need in order to go to work to support their families. But we believe very firmly that the additional measures we're putting into the budget will make a real impact for 250,000 families. We believe that overall our childcare system, which is geared towards those who need it most and tapers off down to zero for those in very wealthy families, is a fair system and is not only fair to the people in the childcare system but fair to the 54 per cent of families who don't use the childcare system and who are still paying taxes.

Graham Perrett (Moreton, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm happy to make a contribution to the member for Kingston's MPI. I sat with the member for Kingston when we were looking at the budget in detail up in the Federation Chamber. I heard some great questions from the member for Kingston but not a single answer from the minister opposite. So it's great to have a 10-minute discussion about child care here today, because he somehow managed to avoid answering the member for Kingston's questions up in the Federation Chamber.

But let's get some facts out there because there was quite a lot of hot air and bluster flowing around for the last 10 minutes. No. 1: Australians pay more for child care than basically any other country in the world. That's a fact. So we know more needs to be done. Fact No. 2: the coalition's childcare policy was designed by then Treasurer Morrison, now Prime Minister Morrison. It has his fingerprints all over it. The system, designed by the Prime Minister, is his baby, so to speak, when it comes to child care.

The facts are that childcare costs are out of control, as touched on by the member for Kingston. They have basically increased by three times CPI: over the past 12 months childcare costs soared by 3.7 per cent, compared to a CPI increase of 1.1 per cent. We know—the economists tell us; not the so-called inner-city people that the minister was talking about but the Business Council, economists—and every sensible person knows, we need to get more people into the workforce. What's holding them back? Childcare costs. So the business groups, the economists and the other experts are all calling for an urgent reform of the childcare system that the Prime Minister gave birth to—and I do apologise for that metaphor. KPMG has estimated childcare reform could generate between 160,000 and 210,000 additional working days a week. That's 30,000 to 40,000 full-time jobs. We know that there are considerable pressures on the economy. We know, as The Front Project report says, there are fewer people having babies. It's a barrier to having babies. According to the 1,700 families surveyed, 73 per cent of them say that childcare costs will result in lower birth rates.

What are we doing about these issues? We've got the borders closed. We've also got no international students flying in, which used to be a pathway for educated, trained-up people to join our workforce. We'd harvest other countries' brightest people. We'd bring them in, put them through our universities and get the benefits of them in the economy, especially for tourism and all sorts of things, in the workplace, like picking fruit on their holidays. Those people aren't coming. The international students aren't coming in, because the government has completely stuffed up the quarantine program. We've got the borders closed, so we can't harvest the intelligent people from around the world. We know that the Canadians, the United States and the British are taking our international students, what used to be our third biggest export.

So what do the economists say? We need to get more people into the workforce. That's where the productivity game will come. We're not going to have a population increase. Remember the last few budgets? There has been a baby boom predicted in every single budget under those opposite, and we've got the actual birth rates going down under the coalition, under the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government.

Mr Tudge interjecting—

Can you stop please, Minister? I'm trying to concentrate here. What do we need to do? We need to get more people into the workplace. What's the vision from those opposite? I've seen disused service stations with more vision than the Prime Minister. Fair dinkum, we really need to get the people who can go out and work right now, who are keen to work right now. They're the people could who generate GDP growth of between $4 billion and $11 billion per annum, if we reformed it right. This Morrison mess, if we worked on that—

Llew O'Brien (Wide Bay, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm just going to remind the member for Moreton to use the Prime Minister's correct title.

Graham Perrett (Moreton, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Not as an adjective. I do withdraw that. Sorry. We do know that we all can't have taxpayers funding a babysitter while we live in a taxpayer funded mansion. We actually need to do something constructive.

Julian Leeser (Berowra, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As the father of a three-year-old, I know how important child care is to young families in my electorate. Child care provides quality early childhood education for children, and, most importantly, it leads to increased workforce participation, allowing parents to support their families. There was much that the member for Moreton said that I disagreed with, but what he did say that was right was that we need to increase workforce participation. I think we are doing that handsomely under the Morrison government. The wonderful unemployment rate that came down today had figures as low as 5.1 per cent. As the Treasurer said in question time, the economy is roaring back. People are coming back to work in the economy. Our childcare system is playing a part in ensuring that women in particular are able to rejoin the workforce.

I'm proud to be part of a government that has seen women's workforce participation increase. When Labor left office, it was at 58.7 per cent, and today's ABS data indicates that this has increased now to 61.7 per cent, despite the fact that we have had the great economic shock of the COVID-19 recession. Labor likes to lecture us on childcare fees and costs, but it's also to be remembered that childcare fees under Labor went up 53 per cent. By contrast, since we came to office, we've been spending much more on child care than the Labor Party, 77 per cent more—indeed, a record $10.3 billion this year, including $9 billion to subsidise the fees set by childcare services. There are an extraordinary number of children in child care now—over 280,000 more children in child care today.

When I talk to young families in my electorate, people are very pleased at the announcement we've made in the budget to provide $1.7 billion to Australian families to help them with child care. These are families that send their children to some of the many childcare centres in my electorate, whether it's Galston Early Learning, Greenwood Early Education, Kindilan, Kids in the Sky or Goodstart Early Learning. They are just a few of the many childcare centres that operate in my electorate. This particular measure will really be important because it will help families with their out-of-pocket costs, and that's the big issue in child care for families.

By increasing the subsidy for families with a second or third child under five years of age, a quarter of a million families will be better off. On average, families will be better off by $2,260 per year, and this will make a real difference. For example, a family typically in my electorate earning $180,000 a year with two children in four days a week child care will be $125 better off. In particular, the measure to remove the cap of $10,560 on the childcare subsidy is a big deal for families in my electorate and has been warmly welcomed. The measures in the government's childcare package will benefit 1,160 families across the Berowra electorate, and this is really important for those families.

This particular package has been welcomed by a whole range of stakeholders that perhaps don't always cheer on the government. Let me remind the House of what some of the different agencies and people that have engaged in childcare policy have said. UNICEF said:

The injection of $1.7b additional funds into the 2021-22 Budget is a welcome and important step in improving the affordability of early childhood education and care for Australian families. The Government has targeted these measures carefully to help increase access to early childhood education and care services for children in low and lower middle-income families. We are encouraged by this focus …

They're right. The Early Learning and Care Council of Australia said the budget:

… delivers for children, families and Australia’s early learning and care sector, increasing investment to support young children’s learning and women’s workforce participation.

Workforce participation is key to the Business Council of Australia. Jennifer Westacott, their CEO, said, 'This is good for mums and dads, good for business and good for the economy.' Early Childhood Australia boss, Sam Page, said, 'It's good for children, good for families and good for the economy.' Goodstart Early Learning CEO, Julia Davison, said:

The removal of the annual cap will also reduce stress of many families who run out of subsidy towards the end of the financial year and then need to scramble to make ends meet.

That's true of so many of the families in my electorate who depend on quality child care not just for the education of their children but also to allow both mum and dad to go to work to support their families and to provide for their families in the manner in which they would like, to deal with the costs of living that they face.

I commend the federal government's childcare policy package.

Fiona Phillips (Gilmore, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm pleased to have the opportunity to speak on this matter of public importance today because I can say wholeheartedly that people are really struggling in my electorate. With everything people have gone through—drought, bushfires, flood after flood and, of course, the pandemic—people have had enough. Parents, children, workers, small-business owners—it's taking its toll on everyone. But there is a glowing light amongst all of this, and that is the recognition that above everything else our family, friends and community are vital.

I'm immensely proud of my community—the toughest of times and people pull together. It's like a giant washing machine. Throw in drought, bushfires, floods, pandemic, all mixed together, and see what it turns out like. We've seen businesses close, workers lose their jobs and the most extraordinary conditions. We've seen a boom in construction as people rebuild after the bushfires. We've also seen people flock to our country coastal area, keen to find that clean country coastal air for both tourism and to live, which is great for our local shops and spending but there's an unintended lurgy. When you open that washing machine lid or door you're left with spiralling house prices, the lowest rental availability in New South Wales—and, suddenly, more and more people struggle to have somewhere to live. And the bizarre consequence is that workers are harder to find.

For families and businesses in my electorate it's at crisis point. Many want to work or work more days and hours but without the basics of affordable child care it simply isn't an option. The truth is that childcare costs are eating a bigger and bigger hole in household budgets and putting more financial strain on families. When times are tough the choice between putting food on the table or accessing child care for your child or children is horrible to even contemplate. But it shouldn't be that way. Every child deserves access to early education. We know that's one of the best things to help in preparation for school and future life. Every parent should be able to work. They need a childcare system that supports them and, in turn, supports our local businesses and communities.

Childcare fees are up 37 per cent under the Liberals and went up 2.4 per cent last year. The cost of child care is now higher than it was under the previous childcare system and it's the highest it's ever been. Recently I visited a new early learning centre in Milton in my electorate, Milton Early Learning and Care, a fantastic centre with big fat smiles. What struck me about this centre was the devotion of early-learning educators and the integration of families. I wasn't surprised to learn that the centre was already very close to full—such is the demand for the area. I want to send a big shout-out to all the early-learning educators on the New South Wales South Coast. They do the most amazing and important work: educating our young people.

But the government must do more. The coalition's childcare system is broken. That is why Labor has a plan to bring down the cost of child care for families and keep it down. An Albanese Labor government will introduce cheaper child care for working families which will scrap the $10,560 childcare subsidy cap—which often sees women losing money from an extra day's work—lift the maximum childcare subsidy rate to 90 per cent, increase childcare subsidy rates and taper them for every family earning less than $530,000.

Importantly, the ACCC will design a price regulation mechanism to shed light on costs and fees and drive them down for good. The Productivity Commission will also conduct a comprehensive review of the sector, with the aim of implementing a universal 90 per cent subsidy for all families. Labor's plan for cheaper child care will reward working families and allow more second-income earners, usually women, to work more and contribute to our economic recovery.

Families deserve better. Children deserve better. Businesses and my community deserve better. More women and parents should be able to work. They should be able to earn more of an income. Businesses should be able to find more workers. It starts with affordable child care. Only Labor has a plan to fix the coalition's broken childcare system.

Katie Allen (Higgins, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As the Treasurer said, we want more Australians in jobs. In jobs there is dignity, there is a meaning and there is purpose. That should be open to men and women equally. One of the ways we are doing this is by protecting and improving child care. By lifting barriers we help reduce the disincentives for men and women with young families and help them to participate in the workforce to the full extent that they can.

When I had my children, 25 years ago, there were not these opportunities for people to have that support. That's why I welcome the fact that our coalition government has delivered for the people of Australia, for the families of Australia. When a family welcomes a baby it's an incredibly exciting and sometimes turbulent time, but to have the freedom of choice on how they care for their new family empowers parents—freedom to balance their new responsibilities without sacrificing their career or their precious time with their children. Perhaps a parent would like to undertake study or further training while caring for their children. Perhaps they would like to go back to work for a day or two a week as their children grow. This is an incredibly important transition time for young families, particularly as they develop and balance their career with their families.

I'm very proud of the commitment this government has made to preserving family choice. Our government has announced, starting on 1 July 2022, an increase in childcare subsidies available to families with more than one child aged five or under in child care. This will benefit about 850 families in my electorate of Higgins alone, and almost 61,000 families in Victoria. For those with more than one child in child care, the level of subsidy received will increase by 30 per cent to a maximum subsidy of 95 per cent of fees paid for the second and subsequent children. This is akin to saying, 'You can have the family size that you want.' This is fantastic news. These changes will ensure half of Australian families receive a 95 per cent subsidy for the second child and subsequent children. Secondly, the annual cap of $10,560 for families earning over $189,000 will be removed for all families.

We know what matters most to families, and that is their out-of-pocket costs. Our system targets the greatest level of support for families on low and middle incomes. This is so incredibly important. We have kept out-of-pocket costs low. Three years on since the introduction of our reforming childcare package, out-of-pocket costs are still almost $1 an hour cheaper, on average. They are $3.99, down from $4.87 in June 2018. A quarter of all families are paying less than $2 an hour for child care. Around 90 per cent of families are entitled to a childcare subsidy of between 50 and 85 per cent.

This investment builds on the $10.3 billion that the government is already investing in child care this year. Increasing the childcare subsidy for families with two or more children will help support the choices of working Australian families. This is a targeted investment to help make child care more affordable. It's vital for our economy and it's vital for families. But don't just believe me when I talk about this; let's look to the experts in the sector who have reviewed our recommendations, policies and subsidies. Let's look to KPMG and Alison Kitchen. She says:

We are very clear that this additional childcare support will significantly increase women's participation in the workforce, which our modelling has shown will be a major long-term boost to the economy.

I'm very delighted to say we're seeing the highest rate of women's workforce participation. We know our policies are working. I'm very proud to say that we can report today 61.7 per cent female workforce participation. That is the highest on record. This is in contrast to 58.7 per cent when Labor left office. Today, unemployment is down to 5.1 per cent and 987,000 jobs have been added in the last 12 months, 574,000 of them were for women. We know our policies are there and are supporting women.

Let's look at the Australian Childcare Alliance. They welcome the reforms to the childcare subsidy improving affordability for many families. Let's look to the Grattan Institute. They say:

Overall, the Coalition's policy is a helpful and well-targeted package that tackles some of the worst out-of-pocket costs and workforce disincentives. It will mean a real improvement for up to 270,000 families.

Let's look to Chief Executive Women. They said that they:

… welcomed the Federal Treasurer's funding announcement to increase access to childcare as an important step towards helping more women participate in the workforce.

Peta Murphy (Dunkley, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are times in this chamber when it almost feels like being Alice in Wonderland. It's like you live in an alternate universe to the people on that side of the chamber. The things that the members on the other side of the chamber say are so fundamentally disconnected from the actual lived experiences of people like the people in my community, we must almost be living in different countries.

We have all of these members of the government—from the minister, who's turned his back on me, down—and none of them so far have addressed the research released today by the Front Project. So far, none of them have addressed a survey of 1,700 families showing that 73 per cent of families say the cost of child care is a barrier to having more children. We have the member for Higgins saying: 'Oh, isn't it wonderful! Families can have as many children as they want.' That is, as long as they're all under five—she forgot that part of the impact of the government's policy. And there was no reference, none whatsoever, to the cost of child care being a barrier to having more children for 73 per cent of families.

While we're pretending this is a debate in this chamber—for once, because they're not gagging us during the MPI, like all the other times—let's also talk about some of the other ridiculous things that were said on the other side of the chamber: 'Oh, great! We announced a policy.' Well, good, you did, after a long time suggesting that Labor was lying and making up stories about why the childcare system was broken and needed to be fixed. It would seem to me that the fundamental basis of introducing reforms is to accept that the system isn't working, because what else were you doing when you were apparently reforming it?

Let's also ask the people who spoke before me in this debate, who lauded all these families in their electorates who are going to be better off: have any of you told them they won't be better off for a year? They will be better off in 12 months because there will be a federal Labor government with a childcare policy so much better than yours that it will put yours in the shade.

Hon. Members:

Honourable members interjecting—

Llew O'Brien (Wide Bay, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Members on both sides.

Peta Murphy (Dunkley, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

To the members of the government sitting over there, to the child who's yelling at me, the member for Moncrieff and the member for Higgins are talking about how much better off people will be under this policy and no-one is talking about the fact it doesn't start for 12 months and, even then, 750,000 families will miss out. So next time you are talking about your policies, maybe talk about the actual details so people know that they will not be better off tomorrow or next week or next month; they will be better off possibly in 12 months, if you are re-elected. Some 750,000 people are left out. The way that people will be better off under a reformed childcare system is if they vote for a Labor government. You know, it was 2 February of this year that the Age had an article entitled: 'High childcare costs push 90,000 parents out of the workforce'. Members of the government keep talking about how amazing they are.

Government members interjecting—

Perhaps if you stop yelling at me and listen to this, you will hear I'm talking about a real person in my electorate.

Honourable members interjecting—

Llew O'Brien (Wide Bay, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Dunkley will take her seat for a moment. Members on both sides, the level of interjections is too high. Members will cease interjecting. The member for Dunkley.

Peta Murphy (Dunkley, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Deputy Speaker. On 2 February this year, the Age reported, with the headline 'High childcare costs push 90,000 parents out of the workforce', the story of my constituent, Emily Hovette, who is 33 years old, who works full-time and her two-year-old daughter, Margot, is in child care five days a week and her out-of-pocket expenses are $350. She and her husband, who also works full-time, plan to have a second child. How are they going to pay for it is what Emily asks. How are they going to pay $700 a week? She said it's 'a hell of a lot of money and it's going to be really tough, but we are prepared to do it because there are no other options'.

She said:

I just think it's a bit of a broken system personally. I'm trying to work to set up a future for my family and also show my daughter that women can be successful in the workplace.

Under a federal Labor government, she would save over $6,000 a year, assuming she gets a 50 per cent subsidy, and that's how women will be successful in a workplace under a federal Labor government.

Rowan Ramsey (Grey, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On one hand I am surprised at this MPI motion today but on the other hand I am not. I've been here a while and I remember what it's like in opposition and how hard it is to score a point when things are going well for the government. That was the case for my side of politics in 2008, when the Rudd government was first elected. They had a surplus budget they had inherited, they had $80 billion in the bank and they had an unemployment rate of less than five per cent. But, of course, history shows it wasn't long before we had something to complain about, because it all went pear shaped under that regime. Then, as an opposition, we had plenty of points to pick up. You can see how difficult it is for the opposition to have a go at the government. Today when we heard the unemployment figures had fallen to 5.1 per cent, you would have thought that somebody had stolen their lunch. Over there, they were like a mob of year 4s and someone had nicked their lunch; they were so bloody miserable. For goodness sake, if you're here for the good of Australia, you should be absolutely rejoicing in the 5.1 per cent unemployment rate after the worst economic shock in a hundred years. They should have been overjoyed. But they looked like they'd lost their lunch. It was a really tough day for them!

So here we are talking about child care. I've heard four speakers—in fact, I heard you twice, Member for Kingston, because you spoke for 10 minutes yourself and you spoke for 10 minutes while the minister answered. So you've had 20 minutes on this program. There have been four speakers on this MPI from that side. That is more than double the complaints about child care that I've had come into my office in the last 12 months. I kid you not. Talk about trying to make an issue out of nothing. How weak is this opposition? For goodness sake, celebrate the good things we're doing in child care. We are doing good things.

I heard the member for Gilmore say that the cost of child care had risen by 37 per cent under this government. I don't actually know if that figure's right, but I'll take it at face value—37 per cent. We've been in government for eight years. In fact, it rose by 53 per cent in the six years that the Labor Party were in government. This is the trouble when you start speaking in front of people who have got a bit of a history in this place; we've also got a bit of a memory. So how on earth can you be complaining about that outcome? The rates for child care on an hourly basis have fallen by close to a dollar over the last three years. That is a fantastic outcome. As for expenditure on child care, when Labor were last in power, it was $5.8 billion per annum. This year it's $10.3 billion per annum, a 77 per cent increase.

As I said, I am surprised that the member for Kingston brought this motion forward, but they are quite desperate in opposition. It's worth noting, too, that, in that time, the award for those educators working in the childcare system has risen by 36 per cent. Their wages have risen by 36 per cent. That's a pretty good outcome. That is a very good outcome. And we need to pay these educators well—these people who care for our children. Perhaps we need to even pay them better. But it's certainly a very good position that we're in, and much, much better than what we inherited.

In the budget we just announced that we're going to better target more assistance for those people with more children. If you've got more than one child in day care, we're actually going to reward you at a higher level, up to 95 per cent. That's really a pretty astonishing outcome, isn't it—95 per cent of your childcare costs picked up? We've got to know, when we bring children into the world, that we do have some responsibility for them. I think five per cent's not an unfair ask.

Opposition Members:

Opposition members interjecting—

Rowan Ramsey (Grey, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, it is only for the second one. And I think that that's what we on this side of the House have got right. We understand that's when the pressure comes on. That's when you need to put your shoulder to the wheel. So I back the current policies. I think we're doing a pretty good job. (Time expired)

Luke Gosling (Solomon, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I want to congratulate the member for Kingston on this fine policy that she has developed in consultation with a whole range of stakeholders and a whole range of families from around this nation. It is a superior policy to the one put forward by those opposite. I'm not interested in slinging insults across the chamber. I'll simply say why it is a superior one and should be adopted by those opposite and implemented asap, not in over a year's time.

It's because when I'm back in my electorate in Darwin and in Palmerston, the capital of the north, talking to people, talking to mums in particular—I was at a childcare centre just last week, meeting with parents, meeting with the childcare educators—the No. 1 concern that young families express almost every time this conversation comes up is unaffordability. Simply, the problem is that working families in my electorate are finding it increasingly difficult to afford child care. They're paying more than ever before, and it is no exaggeration to say that the system is completely broken. Even those opposite must acknowledge that to some extent, given their effort at coming up with a new policy. But it's broken. The Prime Minister designed it, calling it a 'once-in-a generation reform'.

It's not as though, for the seven years they've been in government, families haven't been struggling with child care. But, under this government, childcare fees have gone up by 37 per cent over that period. Just last year, a difficult year, the fee increase in the NT was 3.2 per cent. You mightn't think that sounds like much, but it is when it keeps going up and up and up. Working families in Darwin and Palmerston can't afford these fee increases, and that is a message I'm sending to those opposite right now. The three per cent or so in the last year is on top of all the other increases in the cost of living. What we're doing, through the policy proposed by the member for Kingston, is committing to helping families, because their wages aren't going up, particularly those on low incomes. And let's face it, those on low incomes are rarely in the thoughts and prayers of those opposite—certainly not in their policy prescriptions. Those on low incomes need this support. They are committing to bringing up young Australian families and they need support.

When it comes to productivity, if we want to get more people into work, particularly women, we need to get the settings right, and that's what our policy does. The situation we find ourselves in now, as the member for Kingston said, is that 73 per cent of Australian women say that childcare costs are stopping Australian families from growing. I think that's a massive problem. We want parents to be able to afford to grow their families. It's the role of those opposite, the role of whoever's in government at the time—hopefully us, after the next federal election—to do a number of things to get our country back on track, and this is a big one in terms of productivity and in terms of supporting Australian working families.

Independent analysis says that our early childhood education policy means that there'll be more support for more families for longer. That's a good thing. Early childhood educators love their jobs, but they're finding it increasingly difficult to stay in them. As I said, I visited Goodstart Early Learning in Bakewell, Palmerston last week, and I want to thank the director, Junell Moore, and Bella. I've got the highest respect for the job they do, but it is a reality that they're finding it difficult. Our policy will help families. It will help across the board, particularly at a time when people in my electorate are struggling, with rents going through the roof. Federal Labor's policy, which we will enact after the next election, will help working families.

Julian Simmonds (Ryan, Liberal National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's my great pleasure to round out this MPI debate on childcare fees this afternoon. On behalf of coalition members and the government, I'd like to start by congratulating and thanking childcare workers and early education workers, who are doing such a great job right across Australia. They certainly are doing so in my electorate of Ryan. Those workers have absolutely worked their guts out, particularly through the COVID-19 pandemic. They do a marvellous job in supporting the early education of our kids, as well as supporting mums and dads—families right around Australia—to make the best choices for their family.

So with a heavy heart I say that, frankly, they deserve better than the proposed policies of the member for Kingston. The member for Kingston unfortunately has a bit of a track record in this place when it comes to her policy prescriptions. They're a bit brash. They don't always come to fruition. You can see that because she was one of the many members on the other side of the chamber who said that when JobKeeper ended the sky was going to fall in, unemployment would go through the roof and there would be mass casualties all over the place. It didn't happen. In fact, we have seen unemployment drop again this month—consecutively, month on month on month, because of this government's policy prescriptions. It's dropped now to 5.1 per cent, a result that those on the other side, you'd think, along with all members of this place, would be trumpeting, but of course for Labor it's not actually about how many people are in jobs; it's about how many people have signed up with their union mates. When it comes to creating jobs, it's this side that bears the responsibility for that, because we on this side of the House want to make sure that Australians find work and find that opportunity for their families.

The member for Kingston, just as she was wrong in her policy prescriptions when it came to JobKeeper, unemployment and getting people into jobs, is wrong with her policy prescriptions when it comes to child care. What is her fix for child care? What is Labor and the member for Kingston's proposed fix for child care? It is what Labor always do, which is throwing more money at it—more of your money, more of your taxes, more money out of your pocket because they think they can spend to fix anything. Labor's policy will see the wealthiest of families in this country benefit, at a cost of $20.3 billion over the forward estimates. They have never seen an issue they didn't think they could spend their way out of, and it's not their money at the end of the day. It's your money. It's coming out of your pocket. They will go to yet another election with very expensive policies because for them it's not about thinking through the complexities of issues and trying to find the best policy prescriptions; it's simply about how much of your money they can throw at it. They will go to an election again and ask to reach into your pockets even deeper so that they can provide another $20 billion over the forward estimates—not so that people who need support to get their kids into child care will get it but so that the wealthiest of Australian families will get the support.

No wonder they are sensitive on this issue—so sensitive that they need to run another MPI on it. Labor do not have a good story to tell when it comes to child care. Fifty-three per cent—under Labor, that's how much childcare fees increased over just six years. That is a rate of almost 10 per cent a year. What an appalling track record. The hypocrisy they must have to swallow to come into this place and talk about childcare fees when they presided over that kind of record—it takes some doing. Even I am impressed.

Under this government we have put in place a targeted system that gives the greatest level of support to those who need it most, and that's an important distinction. We have kept out-of-pocket costs low to support families on low and middle incomes in particular. Families are paying less for child care under our childcare package, and around 90 per cent of families are entitled to a childcare subsidy. We are spending, in fact, 77 per cent more than Labor was when it left government, and over 280,000 more kids are in child care because of the policy settings of this government. That's enabling choices for their families, It's enabling choices for their parents to re-enter the workforce. It's enabling families to do what they know is best for their own kids and their own families. They're being supported and enabled by this government. (Time expired)

Llew O'Brien (Wide Bay, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The discussion has concluded.