Luke Gosling (Solomon, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would like to thank the members for Stirling and Berowra for bringing this motion forward. Like the member for Stirling I've been the beneficiary of the skills, education, training and experience that you get when you're a member of the Australian Defence Force, and it really is first-class training. There are so many great careers in the Australian Defence Force, but it's also about the attitudes as well as the skills and the knowledge that make them special. I believe the Australian Defence Force is unlike any other military body in the world in that we're a small professional force with a small professional reserve. But we have a huge task to defend such a huge continent with our substantial land borders. We're surrounded by massive oceans, so, being a relatively small force, we must have the best people and train them to the highest standards—impeccably high standards—and I believe that we do. The adherence to those standards is what conditions what our Defence Force looks like and the great outcomes that it can achieve. The impact that our forces can have, both here and abroad, like what is happening in the Solomon Islands right now, is directly related to the training that ADF members get during their careers.

Our people are carefully selected, initially, and then they're carefully and vigorously trained. It's not for the faint-hearted, and that is why we select the right people that have got the right attributes to do this training to defend our country and our interest. The defence of Australia rests upon many things: the kit we have, the technology and the capabilities, and also the posture that we take in our region and around the world. We need our people to be exemplars. We need them to have the best skills and training so that they can apply their craft with the kit that we procure for them. So their careers are really fantastic opportunities for them as individuals but also so important to the defence of our nation and our interests, as I said. Without their personal dedication, we would not be the country that we are today.

I'm often told by business owners and operators that veterans are highly sought after in recruitment because of these acquired skills, attitudes, knowledge, education and experience, and I think that should increase in time. No-one likes the narrative of the broken veteran. It is true that we needed to have a royal commission into veteran and defence suicide, because we needed a systemic analysis of where some of our patriots have fallen through the gaps. That is underway and that is good thing. But, overall, veterans serve with distinction and then go on and use what they have learnt in their ADF career to apply in 'civvy street', as we used to call it when in uniform.

It's troubling that veterans can struggle in post-service life, but I think we've found overwhelmingly that if an Australian in one of the forces can transition as seamlessly as possible from their ADF career into their next career then we get much better outcomes for them and their families. I thank those who are speaking on this bill because, obviously, they're interested in this important issue for our nation. I think it will become even more important into the future as we face challenges far and wide.

Michael McCormack (Riverina, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

RMACK () (): At the outset I acknowledge the member for Stirling, who proposed this debate, as well as the member for Solomon for his fine service to our nation through the military. I acknowledge that today the veteran and defence suicide royal commission is beginning its hearings in Brisbane, and I acknowledge also the amount of investment that this government has put into defence generally and into veterans' welfare.

The Governor General, David Hurley, at one time a platoon commander at the home of the soldier, Wagga Wagga, returned to the base just the other day. As the reviewing officer at a March Out parade, as reported by ABC Riverina, he recalled similar events when he was at that recruit-training base. Governor General Hurley told those present:

I had many a father come up to me and say, 'Well, I don't know what you did, mate, but it's a bloody miracle. It's not really a miracle — it's the product of the work put in by your staff and all here at Kapooka, to see you through your training. It's the product of your families and your friends who have supported you during this 83-day journey. But more than that, it's the product of your determination, your desire to complete this training and become an Australian soldier.

We need the best, the brightest and the bravest to continue that long line of khaki stretching right back to Gallipoli and even before that. Only in recent days we've deployed Townsville troops, trained at Wagga Wagga, to the troubled Solomon Islands. Those 60 or so recruits, who were addressed by Governor General Hurley, joined more than 350,000 before them in graduating from that gruelling 12-week course.

I'm in a privileged position, as the member for Riverina, given that the largest centre in the electorate, my home town of Wagga Wagga, is a tri-service city, where all three arms of defence have a significant presence. We have the Army and we have the Air Force—and if you end up spending any given time in the Royal Australian Air Force you'll end up at Forest Hill. And even though we're many hundreds of kilometres from the nearest drop of seawater, we also have a Navy base. How fantastic is that?

I often say to the students at university graduations, that their degree is the key to their future, but I want to suggest that enlisting in the Australian Defence Force is a ticket to endless opportunity. That's not only because those who sign up to defend our nation and its interests earn themselves our heartfelt thanks and eternal respect but that they sign up for an array of career opportunities and benefits. Signing up to the ADF opens the door to a multitude of benefits and advantages, such as flexible working arrangements, being paid to maintain personal health and fitness, a constant variety of work, the provision of meals and accommodation, and the opportunity to learn more and to gain new skills. Career options in the ADF range from aircraft maintenance officers, administration and human resources officers, communication specialists, engineers, chefs, mechanics, medics, air traffic controllers, combatants, infantry officers, and geospatial and intelligence analysts. There are so many opportunities and so many advantages.

One only needs to look at the history of commandants of Blamey Barracks, Kapooka—the home of the soldier—to see the great heights and achievements of those who have led this fine institution. Mick Garraway went from leading Kapooka to assisting in the New South Wales bushfire crisis. Andrew Nikolic went from Kapooka to being a member of the House of Representatives. Steve Jobson was awarded the Conspicuous Service Cross in 2012 for his service during the Queensland floods. Outgoing Commandant Jim Hammett was recognised in the 2017 Queen's Birthday honours—and well done to him. He is to be replaced by Andrew Deacon, the youngest ever commandant at 38 years old. He's a lieutenant-colonel now and may that colonel rank be forever attached to this role, as it is one of—if not the most—important positions in Army. I appreciate the Chief of the Defence Force and the Chief of Army are important roles, but making sure that those recruits at Wagga Wagga are their best selves when they come out of the place is such an important role. I cannot emphasise that enough.

Serving in the armed forces, of course, comes with great risk, and we acknowledge that. It comes with great sacrifice. Our Defence Force members give up time with their families and friends to serve our nation. We give them eternal gratitude. I know that the benefits and advantages of being an ADF member are many, and I am so pleased to be able to speak in this debate, because we want, our best, our brightest and our bravest to continue to wear those uniforms. Whatever colour they are, ADF uniforms have a proud past, are very good now, and they have a great future ahead.

Graham Perrett (Moreton, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am very happy to speak on the motion moved by the member for Stirling, and I particularly commend the contribution by the member for Solomon in this debate, but also on the rugby field yesterday when we took on the ADF and got touched up by the members of the ADF. But this is an important motion, acknowledging the sacrifice of personnel who put their hands up for a career in the Australian Defence Force, and the sacrifice of their families. It is a very worthy topic for debate in this parliament, particularly today, when the royal commission into suicides is kicking off in Brisbane. I regularly visit the RSLs in my electorate of Moreton and do so proudly. Of course, on Anzac Day and Remembrance Day those organisations play a special role, but they are actually very important every day of the year. 'Shoulder to shoulder always' is the motto of the Queensland RSL, and I know the Yeronga, Sunnybank, Salisbury, Sherwood and Stephens RSLs all live up to that motto each and every day.

This motion is particularly about the benefits and sacrifices of a career in the ADF. I spoke to some local returned soldiers to hear their stories. When Hugh Poulson was at school he was attracted to the school cadets. He joined the regular Army as an enlistee in 1968, went to officer cadet school in Portsea, Victoria, graduated 12 months later as a second lieutenant in the Royal Australian Artillery and was in the ADF for 25 years. When he left, he held the rank of major. Hugh commanded a group of 500 men and had postings in Australia and overseas. He left the Army because he felt he was no longer leading his men in terms of physical fitness and because his children needed some stability. Hugh left the ADF in 1993. Unemployment was still high and he had to battle the preconceived views that civilians held about the Defence Force.

But Army is much more than 'foot soldiers'. It is a self-sufficient organisation with all the skills and traits to exist as a solo enterprise. Hugh had, and still has, excellent people management skills, project management skills and communication skills, which he gained and developed in the Army. Hugh understood that he had to sell himself and civilianise his Army skills and capabilities into a language that employers could relate to. It took him a number of interviews before he was finally employed. He actually found work in the Queensland public sector. At one point Hugh worked directly to the then Premier Peter Beattie on a telecommunications project, where his management and communication skills and flexibility were crucial to the success of the statewide project. He also learnt law and represented many ex-servicemen before the AAT—such an important part of RSLs. He was an advocate who not only understood the law but understood the military context of the law. Hugh has been an influential force at the Sunnybank RSL subbranch, which has embraced the wider community and multiculturalism.

Another local RSL member is Andrew Clifford. Andrew was in the Army Reserve for 13 years. He'd been employed at the department of transport but gave up his day job to go to Timor as part of Australia's reconstruction project. He described this as 'the hearts and minds project'. Andrew went to Timor as a reservist but was in charge of men who were in the regular Army, as there weren't enough corporals in the regular. In the reserves he was a technical engineer, but in Timor he was a combat engineer. He worked on mine warfare, water purification and bridge building. When Andrew returned it took three months to try and process his experience. While he was away life had moved on. Andrew was very unsettled for a time and moved from place to place to try and find himself. What he took from the Army were more than the skills of a combat engineer. Andrew had planning and organisational skills and could follow instructions. He transferred the skills he developed during his time with the ADF into building a business that removes legionnaire's disease from sites. He's also part of the executive of the Stephens RSL subbranch in Annerley and has made a significant contribution to the support and social activities of the branch.

These are just two stories. We know that our Defence Force personnel have developed valuable skills that can be transferred to civilian businesses. They understand the meaning of service and sacrifice and see them as substantial commitments. Returned veterans have put themselves on the line to protect our freedoms, and we owe them an enormous debt. It is not always easy to return to civilian life, and the RSLs, along with other organisations, do an amazing job in easing the transition process. I particularly thank Hugh and Andrew for their service and for letting me tell their stories here at Parliament House. I thank all of our returned service personnel.

The horrific numbers that are coming out of the royal commission will reinvigorate trauma for many people. The idea that there could be one person a week who takes their life because they haven't transitioned back into society after honourably serving our nation disturbs all parliamentarians.

I hope that Hugh and Andrew know that we are proud of their service. I'm certainly proud of them and I wish them well.

Bert Van Manen (Forde, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I associate my remarks with those of the member for Moreton, the member for Solomon earlier and other speakers on this motion. If there's one thing in this House the brings us all together it's our admiration and respect for the work that our service men and women do to protect our country. But they not only protect our country; they try to help other countries in far-flung parts of the world make their societies safer and better. Each and every day, our ADF members protect our borders and our natural resources, and provide humanitarian and disaster relief, as we've seen over the past couple of years. They assist in recovery efforts and they contribute to our regional stability.

As we've seen in the past week, we now have members of the ADF on the ground in the Solomon Islands again. It's a very sad state of affairs to see that. I was there six or seven years ago on an election monitoring trip, when we saw the success of RAMSI prior to that. Now we are seeing our troops on the ground again. I wish the Solomon Islands every success in getting things back in order.

Their mission to defend our nation's interest is underpinned by the quality of training in a range of areas that are not, I think, replicated in the civilian workforce. When we look at the contemporary role that our Australian ADF personnel play, the variety of jobs and occupations on offer, the incredible array of high-tech, innovative and challenging part-time and full-time roles, it's no wonder that people with a background in the ADF should be well and truly recognised for their efforts once they leave service They bring with them a broad range of backgrounds, a broad range of skill levels and expertise, a broad range of interests and, I would say, given their roles, a much broader view of society and the world maybe than many others in our community.

They are a wide range of reasons as to why somebody should choose an ADF career. But more importantly, to me—and, sadly, as we will see over the coming months with the royal commission—there are many instances where, once people leave service, they find it difficult to reintegrate into society and they find it particularly difficult to transfer the skills that they acquired in the Defence Force to civilian roles. One of the weaknesses is certainly an area we can improve on as a nation, and that is to ensure that the skills and the qualifications that those leaving the defence forces have acquired—whether they're mechanics, electricians, carpenters or engineers, or logisticians, who are logistics experts—are recognised in the civilian world. The standards required in undertaking those roles in Defence are at such a high level in many cases that I think there should be a much better transition in that space.

I look at returned service men and women at the Beenleigh RSL, for example, and I look at people like Roger Freeman, David Draper, Cameron Murphy and many others. When they came back, they transitioned the skills that they acquired from their service—some more recently, some many years ago in Vietnam—into the civilian sphere. There were businesses they built as a result of those skills that they acquired, or careers that they had, and there was an ability for them to transfer those skills to a new generation of trades men and women. I want to thank all of our serving men and women and those who have served, and commend them on the wonderful work they do each and every day to make our country a better place.

Kristy McBain (Eden-Monaro, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Towns and communities in Eden-Monaro greatly benefit from having Australian Defence Force bases or headquarters nearby, and thousands of Eden-Monaro constituents have had very fulfilling careers in the ADF. On top of this, when the bushfires hit communities across Eden-Monaro, the ADF was there to support and assist in recovery efforts. Army and Army Reserve personnel were on the ground throughout Eden-Monaro, and HMAS Adelaide provided logistics support to Eden. Following the fires, HMAS Supply crew travelled back to the Bega Valley to help rebuild fences that were lost and to rejuvenate a local oval that was used as an evacuation point. HMAS Supply has since made Eden its ceremonial port, further strengthening the bond between our communities and the ADF.

Closer to here, my electorate is also home to the ADF's Headquarters Joint Operations Command, near Bungendore. My electorate is also host to an impressive defence technology sector, filled with multiple defence technology companies located just over the border in Queanbeyan. For people who live in my electorate, a career in the defence industry is a realistic and viable career option. We know that people who join the ADF benefit greatly through the skills, education and experience that they get during their service. There are myriad well-known benefits to a career in the ADF.

But I do question the timing of this motion, because, while we are standing here talking about the benefits of a career in the ADF, this week hearings started in the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. There is a time and a place for this discussion, but I wonder if it is now. Right now, we need to be listening. We need to be giving this royal commission the attention it deserves, and this government needs to be entirely focused on fixing the broken veteran-support system. Veteran suicide is a national shame and it's a national tragedy. Too many people have died by their own hand, and there are too many people in our defence and veteran communities that are living with mental health problems without adequate support.

We saw a report handed down last week by the Senate Finance and Public Administration References Committee that said there are systematic problems in the Department of Veterans' Affairs. The Morrison-Joyce government's privatisation of public sector capability in DVA is responsible for record waiting times and reduced services to Australia's veterans. In the 2019-20 financial year, 41.6 per cent of the department's workforce was labour hire, including over 50 per cent of frontline claims-processing staff. The report found that replacing experienced public servants with external labour hire contractors has had a disastrous effect on services for veterans. Higher rates of labour hire contractors lead to unsustainable case loads, high staff turnover and the need to constantly retrain new staff, creating significant delays. The average processing time for an initial liability claim is now 193 days. This means a wait of over six months—and we know that delays in processing compensation claims have a direct impact on the mental health of our claimants.

The Morrison-Joyce government is once again proving that it doesn't know how to listen. For years, our veterans, their families and DVA staff have spoken up to demand change, but this government continues to outsource its responsibility. This government has chosen to raise a motion today talking about the benefits of a career in the ADF, but it needs to focus on listening and the tale being told by veterans and their families across this country. I was recently in Googong, where I met a person who had served in the Middle East. That person couldn't talk about their experience and simply said the support received since their service was not enough. I had a similar experience talking to a veteran in Talbingo. That person had served in Vietnam and said that, frankly, he feels like governments have abandoned him. These stories aren't unique.

We need to do more to support our Defence personnel when it comes to transitioning out of the ADF and into civilian life. We need to do more because, when we don't, our veterans fall through the cracks. This is something that is already happening far too often, with thousands of our veterans sleeping rough across this country. In New South Wales, one in 10 people sleeping rough is a veteran. Around 5,800 ex-service men and women have been homeless in the last 12 months. It's a national shame that so many people who have risked their lives and have served our country are homeless. Those people who stand tall with their medals on Remembrance Day and who march the streets on Anzac Day shouldn't have to sleep there too. The devastating and stark reality is that, in our nation, we have failed too many of our veterans. It's time to not only spruik the benefits of ADF service but also ensure that our veterans are looked after when they leave that service. This should be the aim of all governments.

Jason Falinski (Mackellar, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

KI () (): Is there no motion that the Labor Party will not politicise? Is there no depth that they will not plumb? Is there nothing that the union movement will not demand of them? I would say to the Labor Party that, if this is the cost of donations from the union movement, they should send the money back. The last speaker spoke to us about labour hire, privatisation and those sorts of notions.

Sharon Bird (Cunningham, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member will resume his seat for a moment. The member on a point of order?

An opposition member: I'm just asking what the relevance of this is. I'd like him to speak to the motion.

There is no point of order.

Jason Falinski (Mackellar, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Those opposite ask for a point of order, yet the member for Eden-Monaro just spent 3½ minutes of a five-minute speech—that was meant to be about the benefits of the sacrifices that other Australians, their fellow Australians, make to serve on our behalf—talking about privatisation and labour hire funds. What is going on on that side of the House these days?

An opposition member: Have you listened to veterans?

Now they ask me if I listen to veterans. There is no government in the history of this federation—and I would expect the next one will do even more than we have for the veterans in this country.

An opposition member interjecting

The member opposite asks about how often they ask for a royal commission. It is this government that instituted a royal commission, after their government ignored it. We wanted to have a rolling commission on veterans' affairs. I speak to the northern beaches Veterans Centre, which is now the Veterans Centre Australia—

An opposition member interjecting

The snide remarks from those opposite will be noted by veterans in this country—the snide remarks from those opposite, who rather than spend time talking about the service and the sacrifice that fellow Australians make to defend our nation, talk about what the union donors would prefer them to talk about—

An opposition member: You're embarrassing, mate.

Now he says I'm embarrassing. I'm 'embarrassing' because I stand up for those serving in our Defence Force. I'm 'embarrassing' because I stand here as a member of a government that actually brought on a royal commission into veteran suicides while those opposite did nothing but make snide remarks, while those opposite did the bidding of their union donors and while those opposite talked about labour hire and privatisation. This government has invested and spent record amounts of money in veterans' welfare. Those in this government have done more to help those who have served our nation and continue to serve our nation—

An opposition member interjecting—

Sharon Bird (Cunningham, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is too much disruption in this speech.

Jason Falinski (Mackellar, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Of course there is disruption, because they can't hear the truth. They have to disrupt it because the truth is that this government, on behalf of the Australian people, on behalf of a grateful nation, has invested record amounts of money in veteran welfare and has invested record amounts of money in our defence forces. The first job of any government is the security and safety of its people so that the people of Australia can know, when they go to bed at night, that their government has done everything it possibly can to ensure their safety and security. That is what sacrifice is. That is what service is. It's not just talking about whatever your largest donor wants you to talk about.

Every day, ADF members are protecting our borders and natural resources; providing humanitarian relief and disaster relief; assisting in recovery efforts; and contributing to regional stability. This is worth noting in this House. They're being snidely attacked by those opposite because those opposite would prefer to talk about a royal commission, labour hire and, of course, privatisation. The ADF represents a modern, inclusive and diverse workforce, with an incredible array of high-tech, innovative and challenging full-time and part-time roles. Diversity in Defence means respect for individual difference. It means valuing and using the unique knowledge, skills and attributes that our people bring to their work. These are the things that we should be focusing on, rather than defending our serving men and women from the attacks of those opposite.

The nature of military service has a significant difference to civilian employment, with unique demands and sacrifices both from ADF members and from their families. Family moves are regular, their sacrifice sometimes seemingly random, and they do this because they put their fellow Australians before themselves. Demands of the ADF are not only limited to national security and regional stability; they are about our safety and our security.

Tim Watts (Gellibrand, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Communications and Cyber Security) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm pleased to speak in support of the member for Stirling's motion before the House. I acknowledge and thank every member on both sides of the House who have served our country in the Defence Force. I also acknowledge and thank service members of the defence forces, particularly those currently deployed overseas, including the personnel deployed last week to help quell unrest in the Solomon Islands.

It's an incredible sacrifice to put your life on the line and be away from your family and your loved ones for long periods of time to help keep us, our friends and our region safe. I've had the opportunity to observe a career in the defence forces firsthand as a regular participant in the ADF parliamentary exchange program. What has always struck me on seeing ADF service men and women on deployment is just how impressive they are. Highly skilled, highly professional Australians, who know their role, know how to get on with the job and execute it. Some of the ADF's most skilled service men and women work in cybersecurity, the area that I am very happy to represent in the shadow government of this parliament.

Cybersecurity is the most innovative and exciting area in both civilian and defence life right now. You won't find a more interesting career or one with as much future growth potential as one in cybersecurity. We face a critical talent shortage in cybersecurity across Australia. AustCyber estimates that around 16,000 additional cybersecurity workers will be needed for both technical and non-technical positions by 2026. In fact, data from the CyberSeek platform identifies:

… in the 12 months to September 2020, there were more than 14,000 job openings for dedicated and related cyber security roles in Australia, but a talent pool half the size of the national average for employers to recruit from.

The pandemic has only fuelled this demand for cybertalent, with global borders shut and more people working from home than ever before. While more people are choosing to study cyber-related qualifications, with AustCyber estimating the number of graduates to quadruple by 2026, this will still fall far short of what the nation needs. Just 14 per cent of respondents to a 2019 ISACA technology landscape survey believed that we would bridge the skill shortage in our region in the next decade, and 37 per cent believed that the skill shortage would worsen in our region compared to other parts of the globe.

So if you want to start a career in cybersecurity today you'll be confident that there'll be plenty of demand for your skills in the coming years. We need pathways to train those in tomorrow's workforce to develop the skills they need to be effective cybersecurity professionals, and the Defence Force offers an excellent pathway in this regard for those looking to start their cybersecurity careers. Even better: you don't even have to fully commit to a career in the Defence Force straightaway: you can try before you buy. The ADF is currently running an innovative cyber gap program. This offers a 12-month program for anyone its tertiary cyber-related qualification, at any level from a certificate III through to a masters degree, to enhance their cybersecurity skills. It includes two cyberexposure experiences that give participants real-world experience in what it's like to work in areas like instant response; network vulnerability assessment; threat simulation and discovery; and counterinfiltration. Along the way, participants get access to mentoring networking opportunities and guidance on applying for jobs after their studies. There is even generous financial support offered to help cover the cost of study. It's a great and innovative program, and a great stepping stone into a career in cybersecurity, with no obligation to work for the ADF or the government after you finish.

Let me tell you why spending the first few years of your career in cybersecurity, helping to protect Australia, is not just good for your country but is good for your career. We have world-leading cybercapability in Australia and much of it sits within our defence forces, in serving roles in the armed forces and, in addition, within the Australian Signals Directorate as part of the defence portfolio more broadly. In fact some of the world's best hackers work inside the Australian Signals Directorate, and we can be really proud of them. Go to any of the world's biggest hacking conferences, as I have done, talk to the people there and they will tell you the same. While in our defence forces or at the ASD you'll be able to do some of the most interesting work in cyber. Working at these institutions is a 'license to hack'. Working for the ADF or the ASD, you get to do things in cyber, legally, that you can't do anywhere else. And if the idea of hunting big game like international ransomware crews thrills you, there's no better place to do it.

Under the leadership of Director-General Rachel Noble and Head of the Australian Cyber Security Centre, Abigail Bradshaw, these places are keeping Australia's network safe and frustrating our adversaries through offensive operations. The fact that we currently have two women leading these important roles in our nation's cybersecurity sends a clear message that cybersecurity is a career for everyone. And while we have more work to do on this front, it's changing rapidly. As the ASD says, diversity powers our mission. Take up a career in cybersecurity in our defence forces.

Debate adjourned.