Tony Zappia (Makin, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Government Services. What have we learnt from the royal commission into robodebt about concerns raised by those representing the robodebt victims?

Bill Shorten (Maribyrnong, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the member for Makin for his question. Over the last two weeks I have updated the House about royal commission evidence on how various groups in the community warned the government about the unlawful robodebt scheme: the whistleblowers, the lawyers, the media and the brave victims.

There's another group the royal commission has heard evidence from: the welfare advocates. These people are underfunded. They tirelessly and continuously warned about robodebt on behalf of our most vulnerable. Specifically the royal commissioners heard from respected welfare advocates Genevieve Bolton, Katherine Boyle and Katherine Eagle. Importantly, they reminded the royal commission that Australia is a signatory to the United Nations International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, specifically article 9. Article 9 states that social security is a right for people to access. In other words, it is not an optional charity to be taken on a whim by the government.

These advocates further gave evidence that they repeatedly told the former coalition government they had concerns with the averaging process, the automatic application of a 10 per cent interest fee, the unreliability of the automated process. The victims had to chase information from employers who were no longer in business. The victims were told at Centrelink that they first would have to borrow money from payday lenders or use their credit cards in order to pay unlawful debts. There were victims fleeing domestic violence who were homeless. The first time they knew they had a Centrelink debt, a robodebt debt, was when the debt collectors found them.

The victims were told that, in a significant departure from previous practice before the coalition government, they had the onus—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, the minister will resume his seat.

Government members interjecting—

Order, members on my right.

The Attorney-General will cease interjecting. I will hear from the Manager of Opposition Business.

Paul Fletcher (Bradfield, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Government Services and the Digital Economy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, you have ruled on this repeatedly. The minister is a repeat offender. The principle is clear—that he ought not to be drawing conclusions about the conduct of individuals who are parties to the proceedings. He risks compromising the royal commission by doing this. And, once again, he's doing exactly what he—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Resume your seat. The Manager of Opposition Business is correct. On numerous occasions I've reminded the minister. I want him to answer the question with respect to the evidence and not put any conjecture onto any findings or any outcomes. If he does so, I will ask him to resume his seat.

Bill Shorten (Maribyrnong, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I want to say for the record that, whilst the truth was uncomfortable for those listening to it, it was more uncomfortable for the robodebt victims, and everything I'm saying is evidence; these are facts. And no number of interjections from the member for Bradfield changes the truth.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister will continue with his answer.

Bill Shorten (Maribyrnong, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Of the spread of clients, the evidence shows—the advocates put forward that, of the spread of clients—

Paul Fletcher (Bradfield, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Government Services and the Digital Economy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Resume your seat. The minister can continue with his answer.

Bill Shorten (Maribyrnong, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The evidence shows from the advocates that, of the spread of clients—

Honourable members interjecting—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Minister for Skills will cease interjecting. This is a serious issue for the parliament. I will hear from the Manager of Opposition Business.

Paul Fletcher (Bradfield, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Government Services and the Digital Economy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Speaker, the principle is very clear. The royal commission is charged with reaching conclusions as to fact. That is exactly what is in the terms of reference. The minister is repeatedly trampling—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Resume your seat. The minister was eight seconds in, and he was, in his opening remarks, talking about evidence. And I'm going to listen carefully to make sure he is referring to the evidence. If he doesn't, he will have one last time and he will be resuming his seat.

Bill Shorten (Maribyrnong, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

For the benefit of the member for Bradfield, read from page 996 of the evidence—that's what I'm quoting from. Of the spread of clients who were contacted by these advocates, 37 per cent of the robodebt victims these advocates represent had a disability—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The manager will cease interjecting.

Bill Shorten (Maribyrnong, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

nineteen per cent were homeless, and 12 per cent were victims of domestic violence or in danger of it. In summary, the advocates said: 'We consistently raised our concerns about robodebt, which we believed to be unlawful. It consistently fell on deaf ears.' I also wish to advise the House that, as at two o'clock today, the government has announced, at the request of the royal commission, an extension to its reporting date to 30 June this year.