Maria Vamvakinou (Calwell, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Attorney-General. How important is it for ministers to act in accordance with the law?

Mark Dreyfus (Isaacs, Australian Labor Party, Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think the member for Calwell for her question. When we set up the robodebt royal commission shortly after coming to government, the degree of dishonesty, shocking lack of probity and lack of integrity of the former Liberal government was already very well known. But the painstaking work of this royal commission has uncovered an even greater degree of wrongdoing than many of us had anticipated. Last week, the member for Fadden revealed to the commission that, while he was the minister responsible in 2019, he had serious doubts about the legality of the robodebt scheme. Despite those doubts, this is what he also revealed: the member for Fadden continued to publicly defend the scheme and use fake statistics that he knew to be false. When asked about this at the royal commission, the member for Fadden said 'cabinet made me do it'. I can reassure this House that there is nothing—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Attorney-General will take a break, and I will hear from the Manager of Opposition Business on a point of order.

Paul Fletcher (Bradfield, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Government Services and the Digital Economy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, on a point of order, again, the principle is that a minister should not be putting a construction on the evidence or the drawing of conclusions. I will give the member for Maribyrnong credit that he was quoting from precise verbatim pieces of evidence. You would have thought the first law officer of the nation would also adopt that same principle.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind all ministers not to give a concluded view while the royal commission is underway. I ask the minister to refer directly to evidence in his answer. I give the minister the call.

Mark Dreyfus (Isaacs, Australian Labor Party, Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would refer to commission transcript pages 4219 to 4220. The damage done by behaviour that we have seen at the royal commission weakens the bond of trust between voters and elected representatives. Voters are entitled to the most basic expectations that those in power abide by the law.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Attorney-General will resume his seat.

The minister for skills will cease interjecting. I will hear from the manager.

Paul Fletcher (Bradfield, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Government Services and the Digital Economy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, it is extraordinary that this point needs to be made about the conduct of the first law officer of the land, but the royal commission is specifically tasked with finding facts and drawing conclusions. For this reason you have rightly ruled, as have previous Speakers, that there is a distinction to be drawn between reporting facts and putting a construction on the evidence or the drawing of conclusions. That is precisely what the Attorney-General has repeatedly done in his answer.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will hear from the Leader of the House.

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The comment from the Attorney General to that point of order that was just raised against us was, and I think I'm quoting precisely, 'those in power need to abide by the law'. It is extraordinary that that is controversial, and that it does not need to be seen through the lens of interpreting specific pieces of evidence. It can't be the case that the standing orders don't allow the Attorney-General to make clear that members of the government need to obey the law.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will just remind the Attorney-General not to make any conclusions or give his opinion about what happened at the royal commission and, if he has an answer relating to evidence, I ask him to provide that to the chamber; otherwise I will sit him down. He can, in conclusion, continue his answer.

Mark Dreyfus (Isaacs, Australian Labor Party, Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thanks very much, Mr Speaker. Let's move away from the royal commission. When Labor came to government, it was very clear that there was an urgent need to restore integrity and transparency, which had been so badly eroded by the former Liberal government. The former Liberal government reneged on that promise to establish a national anticorruption commission. They ignored calls for a robo-debt royal commission, and now we know why. The Albanese Labor government have been left with a very big clean-up job to do but we have already made important progress, including by legislating for a national anticorruption commission that will be up and running in coming months.

The robo-debt debacle is just one shocking example of what can happen when governments throw accountability aside, when they act as if they are above the law. It must never happen again.