Sussan Ley (Farrer, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Skills and Training. Of the government funded fee-free TAFE courses that have been commenced since this government was elected with a duration of two years or less, how many have been completed?

Andrew Giles (Scullin, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Skills and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the deputy leader for her question. We know that when they were in government they cut $3 billion from the TAFE and left our government with cleaning up the mess. It was the worst skills crisis in 50 years and the second worst across the OECD. They've asked a few questions about reckless spending, and the Prime Minister detailed quite a few examples, but—

Angie Bell (Moncrieff, Liberal National Party, Shadow Minister for Early Childhood Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How many apprenticeships have you lost?

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The minister will pause. He's entitled to a preamble. He wasn't asked about previous government. He wasn't asked about—

Opposition members interjecting—

Order!

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition, we're just going to come to order. The minister's been asked a question. It's a fairly direct question regarding current figures, not previous figures. He's entitled to some compare and contrast. I'm just going to draw him back to the question to make sure he is being directly relevant. He's had his preamble.

Jason Wood (La Trobe, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Community Safety, Migrant Services and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He got Catherine's note!

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for La Trobe will leave the chamber under 94(a).

The member for La Trobe then left the chamber.

When we're dealing with matters, interjections are highly disorderly. I give the call to the Minister for Skills and Training.

Andrew Giles (Scullin, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Skills and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think that may have been the first contribution by the member for La Trobe in this parliament, just as these have been the first questions from the shadow minister in this portfolio. As the Prime Minister made very clear, fee-free TAFE has been in existence since 2023. Many of the courses—as the shadow minister is well aware—even if taken full time, take a longer period of time than we have been in government. Every single day people are enrolling in fee-free TAFE and getting the opportunity to gain a skill or to retrain. The majority of them are women. Many—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister will pause. The deputy leader on a point of order.

Sussan Ley (Farrer, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The point of order is on relevance. The question is not about commencements but about completions. It's about two-year or less vocational education courses done through TAFE and the number completed. I understand the minister doesn't have the answer—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Resume your seat.

Once a point of order is taken on relevance, it's not an opportunity to simply be able to give further explanations or directions.

Honourable members interjecting—

Order! The minister has already been called to order regarding his answer. The member has asked and raised a point of order, which she's entitled to do, so the minister is going to be directly relevant to the question. He may not give a figure that the member would like. We've been through this before. If he is not going to be directly relevant and talk about the government policy that he is responsible for, he'll be sat down. The minister has the call.

Andrew Giles (Scullin, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Skills and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just today, at CIT in Bruce, I met two students studying diplomas of nursing who excitedly told me that they were 10 hours away from completing. These are stories that go right across the program.

Opposition members interjecting—

And, again, members opposite seem to think it's funny. It is very clear that there's going to be a big choice at the next election between our commitment to fee-free TAFE and the opportunities it is giving more than half a million Australians around the country or a return to 'hamburger university' with $72 million to McDonald's and $30 million to Grill'd.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There has already been a point of order on relevance, so the Leader of the Opposition will be given some latitude, but I'm asking him not to abuse standing orders.

Peter Dutton (Dickson, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, there is a tremendous sense of deja vu with this minister, but my question to you is whether, given your direction to the minister and his defiance of it, he can continue with his answer when he's clearly refusing to answer a very simple question.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Resume your seat.

The member for Moreton is warned. The Leader of the House.

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have two things on the point of order. First of all, your warning against abuses of a point of order was followed immediately by an abuse of a point of order. Secondly, in terms of direct relevance, the question asks about completions, and the minister is talking about completions.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If the minister wasn't talking about people completing TAFE, if he wasn't talking about people graduating from TAFE and he was talking about another topic, he wouldn't be directly relevant. Everyone needs to understand when it comes to direct relevance. He has been cautioned. If he strays off that, the Leader of the Opposition is also correct that he won't be given any more chances. He's got one minute remaining to make sure that his answer is being directly relevant to the question he was asked about fee-free TAFE and completion.

Peter Dutton (Dickson, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He has identified two people.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Leader of the Opposition is now deliberately disrupting. Everyone needs to understand that, for question time to operate, everyone needs to show some restraint just to ensure that we get through the business and order of the House. With that said, with those directions to the minister, he now has the call.

Andrew Giles (Scullin, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Skills and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was talking about completions. What we have seen over the 20 months that fee-free TAFE has been operating is that more than half a million Australians have enrolled. They are pursuing their courses—some full time, some part time. They are getting skills our economy needs and they want. It is the opposite of the wasteful spending under the BAC and the CAC that was more reckless spending from members opposite. They are continuing to talk down Australians and Australia. It's very clear that they're going to propose a series of cuts when it comes to TAFE and to free TAFE at the next election. If that's the fight they want to have at the next election, I say bring it on!