Sussan Ley (Farrer, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Skills and Training and the former minister for immigration. Of the 500,000 people—

Government Members:

Government members interjecting—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, members on my right! We're not going to have people giving commentary. I'm going to hear from the Leader of the House.

Mr Tony Burke (Watson, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The standing orders don't allow questions on the basis of people being former ministers. If they did, there would be lots of questions to a former minister for the environment, but that's not what standing orders—

Government members interjecting—

And health, of course!

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The deputy leader knows that a minister can't be asked about any responsibilities in a former portfolio, just as she knew when she was a minister as well. We'll just restart the question. We probably don't need that part of the question. That's an extra that everyone knows but doesn't need to be added to the question.

Sussan Ley (Farrer, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Skills and Training. Of the 500,000 people who have enrolled in fee-free TAFE courses, how many have dropped out of their course?

Opposition members interjecting—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, members on my left! We don't need sound effects and commentary.

Andrew Giles (Scullin, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Skills and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the deputy leader—I really do thank her—for another question about fee-free TAFE. Actually, it's 508,000 who have enrolled in fee-free TAFE in the data that we have to hand. Our focus is on opening the doors of opportunity to them, to see them get through and attain qualifications or pathways to employment. She should be aware that the data custodian doesn't actually keep that dataset. We are much more focused on ensuring that people get the skills that they need to enter into employment.

Opposition Members:

Opposition members interjecting—

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, members on my left! There is far too much noise. The minister is going to pause.

The Minister for Social Services will cease interjecting. The minister was asked for a number in the question. As the chamber knows, under the standing orders, I can't compel a minister to give a number, whether it be a yes/no response, a figure or a fact. I can't compel the minister, and I know that's what the deputy leader is after, but I can compel him to be directly relevant to the question about the numbers of people who are enrolled in fee-free TAFE and about the difficulties around the project. But I'll hear from the Deputy Leader of the Opposition because she is entitled to raise a point of order.

Sussan Ley (Farrer, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is a point of order on relevance. I appreciate your remarks about a precise number, but the question addressed the number of dropouts and completions. The only thing the minister is addressing is commencements. He is clearly out of order and not relevant. If he doesn't know the answer, he should just say so.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's not the time to add extra comments. The minister was asked a tight question.

Anthony Albanese (Grayndler, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On numerology!

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The Prime Minister will cease interjecting. This places the chair in a position where I want to enforce the standing orders, so I'm going to ensure that the minister is being directly relevant, but I'm also asking for the chamber to listen with respect and courtesy to the minister as well. The minister has the call.

Andrew Giles (Scullin, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Skills and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In fact, maybe they should have been listening, because I did directly go to the question. The shadow minister could perhaps listen. She could perhaps also have regard to the explanation that was given in estimates last night of this issue and the data that we keep. I say again though that we are interested in free TAFE providing Australians with the skills that they want to get gainful employment, and I am frankly baffled that the Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition want to talk this down.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Herbert is warned.

Andrew Giles (Scullin, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Skills and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They want to pick a fight, not with us but with 508,000 Australians and their families, in the same way that they want to make life harder for three million Australians with student debt, including debt that got a lot worse under them.

Milton Dick (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The minister was not asked about student debt. He was asked about the program he's responsible for. I'm just going to give him one more chance; otherwise, he'll have to conclude his answer.

Andrew Giles (Scullin, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Skills and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Speaker. I did go to that. What we are focused on is ensuring that Australians, through free TAFE, get the skills they want and our economy needs. We've been through the issues about how the data is collected by the independent data custodian. We know that free TAFE works because of the Victorian experience, where many more people are completing their courses than university students—many more people than across the VET sector broadly. Around 54 per cent, for those who aren't listening, in the Victorian experience are those who are completing. This is why we have put in a bill to make free TAFE enduring. The question for members opposite is: are they going to support it, or are they going to walk away from public TAFE and all of those students?