Chris Ellison (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Justice and Customs) Share this | Hansard source

Firstly, in relation to the ISPs, I understand that the concern that Senator Ludwig has is that an internet service provider may be criminally liable for actions of third parties who use an ISP’s network to communicate infringing copies. Certainly, the government is satisfied that this does not alter the current position of ISPs under the Copyright Act, that no further clarifying amendments are necessary and that to commit an offence a person or entity must directly commit all the elements of the offence themselves. In the case that I have described, an ISP would not be liable.

In relation to the enforcement of all this, it has been raised at the Police Ministers Council with not much success. I think that there is an avenue for state and territory police to have a role in the enforcement of this because, with regard to groups that are involved in a more organised criminal way, we have found that other things are involved, such as drugs or other illegal behaviour. It is clearly in the interest of states to take part in this. We would want to see not only the Australian Federal Police but also state and territory police involved. Of course, case prioritisation would apply to this, as with anything else, and that is a matter for the AFP. Certainly, I would leave that to the AFP. I would imagine that the AFP would be more preoccupied with the organised aspects of this, where we see, as we have seen recently, organised syndicates involved in infringing copyright in a systematic way and doing so for the purposes of financial gain.

In relation to a more general approach to this, Senator Ludwig, you and I have discussed the role of the Australian Crime Commission. There could well be a role for the Australian Crime Commission in carrying out a determination in relation to assessing how large the problem is, where it is situated and what form and shape it takes. That is something that is best left until after we deal with the passage of this legislation. Certainly, the AFP will be looking at this legislation and working out how it can apply the law and enforce it. But, importantly, we would envisage the state and territory police services having a role in this as well, and that is something that I intend to pursue at the Police Ministers Council. As to how they would prioritise a particular infringement, I think it would be the same as with any other matter: it would go to the extent of criminality, the effect it is having and the seriousness of it—all the usual criteria that would be looked at in assessing a case for investigation. I think that deals with the major issues that Senator Ludwig raised.