David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Justice and Customs) Share this | Hansard source

Senator Nettle, if a person comes under the scrutiny of AUSTRAC and the movement of the money is legitimate, they will probably never know because they will never be charged. If they do know, how are they any better advanced? The end result is that this system depends upon the capacity to record data. AUSTRAC intelligence will be used in criminal investigations by a range of law enforcement agencies, including the Australian Taxation Office, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation and now ASIS et cetera. Its information will not support a prosecution. At best, it will lead to a further investigation. So this is an intelligence-gathering mechanism. If you disclose that you are gathering intelligence, it ceases to have any meaningful contribution to the overall inquiry; I suggest to you.

With respect, I have told you of the safeguards. I have sought to allay your fears, and I know that you have raised these issues before. Mr Temporary Chairman, I suggest to the senator that her opposition is to the fundamentals of this bill, given that it provides for ASIO to do the same thing already and that we are simply completing the circle of intelligence services that can utilise AUSTRAC information and provide it to other sovereign powers to our benefit. If the senator cannot come to terms with those matters, I respectfully suggest that she is opposed to the fundamentals of the collection of data in the fight against money laundering. I am still waiting to hear of an example in which the human rights issue has occurred or there has been some abuse. The senator can attend committee meetings and the senator can ask questions at question time on these matters. I note that I do not think any of that has occurred. I suspect, with respect, that we are taking a point here that is so obscure as to really suggest, Senator Nettle, that you are simply opposed to the direction and object of the bill.