Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate) Share this | Hansard source

I might be able to help with some of this. If you think about it in a broad sense, ASIS looks after the external—in other words, not Australian citizens. They effectively look after intelligence offshore. ASIO looks after intelligence onshore. Therefore, the remit of ASIS is for offshore intelligence gathering, and the remit of ASIO is for onshore intelligence gathering. It would then be inappropriate if you had ASIO, dealing with onshore intelligence, supplying intelligence to an offshore intelligence-gathering organisation. So you could understand why ASIS would want access to AUSTRAC and its intelligence about transactions that are going offshore. It would then make sense. It would be, in my view, inappropriate for ASIO to be the conduit for offshore. You would then have ASIO effectively operating outside their remit, because they would then be dealing with offshore intelligence gathering, which they are not entitled to do. Therefore, the need for this amendment is clear. ASIS does require access to AUSTRAC and the various money information and financial intelligence that AUSTRAC has.

The other point that was not raised is that there is independent oversight by the inspector-general. They do not have to act on complaint; therefore, they do have the ability to go in and look at the procedures, the safeguards and all those matters that ensure that they both are operating within their respective remits in that area.

While I am on my feet I might as well deal with the technical matters that are referred to in the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Amendment Bill 2007, which Labor supports. They are clearly matters that need to be addressed, as is the amendment dealing with ASIS. Clearly, it is necessary for ASIS to have access to AUSTRAC and the information that AUSTRAC has, but I will be following that up, perhaps a little later this evening—but not in the vein of what we have been pursuing to date.

The other matter that you raised was the Shining Path; I think that has been dealt with. It is not within this. The minister did make the point that AUSTRAC looks after intelligence. Under this act it also has a wider remit, as we know. It now has both an intelligence remit and an enforcement remit, but that is obviously under another act as well. AUSTRAC is not only a body that gathers financial intelligence; it also has an enforcement role under another act. I hope that helps.