Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Minister for Community Services) Share this | Hansard source

If you have anything to do with consultation in those communities, Senator Crossin, you will understand that it is very difficult in a public arena to be able to ask, ‘Okay, what is actually going on?’ Like parliament, some aspects are a little bit wedded to a secret ballot and some are not. In my view, a secret ballot provides a far better indication of what people really think, and I think that is pretty much the situation here.

Senator Crossin touched on a couple of issues relating to the police, and I think the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate did as well. The police apparently have said that the government have failed to make any connection at all between child abuse and the permit system. Perhaps I will give it another crack. The police will well know that one of the issues, particularly in the younger generation, is that if you do not have a job you have a lot of time on your hands. You do not have to tell that to the police force, because that is certainly what police officers in the Northern Territory are telling me. That is the demographic that is extremely likely to provide a market for substance abuse in the communities. They are the ones who are saying: ‘I’ve got absolutely nothing to do. I don’t feel very good about myself. I don’t feel a great deal of self-worth.’ They are in the demographic that makes the market for substance abuse. The behaviour patters around substance abuse are very destructive not only to the individual but to those around them—the destruction of culture and the destruction of brothers, sisters, families and communities.

Whilst that may not touch directly on child abuse, surely without employment these communities are without the normal opportunities that come with a community of 100 people on the east coast. If you drive into an east coast community, there are small businesses—the hairdresser, the baker, the petrol station and somewhere to buy hamburgers and a milkshake. Wherever it is, there are always businesses. But these communities are not characterised by that. These communities are not characterised by the same opportunities for employment, and employment provides, not with a long bow, the sense of wellbeing so that we can start breaking the cycle of substance abuse.

I am not sure how much consideration was given to that statement, but I have had a lot of discussions with a lot of police officers in the Northern Territory about the permit system and about a whole range of other issues as I travel around the Territory. I think Senator Crossin is fundamentally right. I will have to be very cautious, because I am very respectful of police officers in the Northern Territory—they are a great bunch—but I think if you said to police officers anywhere, ‘By the way, you have the right to pull anyone over and have a bit of chat,’ they would all say, ‘Great stuff.’ It is difficult sometimes when you know someone is a bad guy but you cannot pull them up.

It has been my experience in the sorts of small communities we have that, if a police officer thinks that someone is doing the wrong thing, there are a whole range of other quite legitimate ways in which he can have a chat to the people concerned. It is certainly not something that I think has any legitimacy as another impediment to providing levels of safety—and that is what it is about. It is about providing the normal rule of law and order.

We will be providing $14 million in the first year and 66 police officers. That is what is going to change. There will be no more intimidation. People will actually feel that they can stand up and report someone who is behaving inappropriately. These are the sorts of fundamental changes that will do away with any particular idea that is wedded to the need for a permit system because it is a policing role. I am sorry, but I do not think that case has been made at all. The case that we should be making is that we need law and order. We need more police officers, and those police officers need to be properly respected and resourced. That is what will make the fundamental changes in these communities. The amendments fail to open up the communities and therefore are not going to be supported by the government.

With regard to your last question, Senator Bartlett, I understand that it is from the time of nomination.