Nick Xenophon (SA, Independent) Share this | Hansard source

As I indicated earlier, I had the privilege of visiting only three communities, Papunya, Hermannsburg and Santa Teresa, on 6 and 7 November and I wish I could have spent more time there. I spent several hours in each, and it was very useful for me to go there. I did go with Adam Giles, who is a Country Liberal Party member out of Alice Springs in the Territory parliament. Though initially there were plans to go with a Labor Party member, unfortunately that fell through and I did not get the benefit of that. I will say this about Mr Giles. Whilst he has firm views about the permit system and introduced me to several people on communities that he knew, I was left to my own devices with my adviser, Rohan Wynn, and we spoke to quite a few people in each of those communities, on many occasions well away from Mr Giles, so there was no question of any interference on his part. I think it is fair to say that I got mixed messages, that there were some people who were quite in favour of the permit system and others who were not. I appreciate what Senator Crossin said, that I have not visited other communities that she referred to. I think Senator Siewert said that she has not had the same exposure and does not have the same degree of knowledge as Senators Scullion and Crossin would have in terms of visits to Aboriginal communities. I probably do not have anywhere near the level of knowledge, in a sense, or experience visiting Indigenous communities that Senator Siewert has.

In those communities, there were mixed views. I was concerned at what some people put to me—that there was a misconception. They said that removing the permit system would allow people to go onto sacred sites. That was put to me by a couple of people, and that clearly is wrong. There was a concern that it would allow access into people’s homes. One person put that to me, and clearly that is wrong. I think it is fair to say that there has been a degree of misapprehension and misinformation in relation to that.

I will canvass the arguments about the permit system briefly. There is an argument that it encourages self-determination for Indigenous people, that it gives some control as to who is able to work on or go onto Aboriginal land. There is one argument that it could hurt the economic development of local artists. I think Senator Crossin is right in that the permit system has not hurt economic development in relation to mining. That is clear. But I think it is also fair to say that the permit system in its current form could provide a disincentive to tourists to visit Indigenous communities where they have to apply and go through a process to visit an art centre, for instance, or an art gallery. I think it is fair to say that in those circumstances that could be a negative factor in terms of tourism.

One of the key issues that I have canvassed is the whole issue of wrongdoers, of having undesirable elements in Territory communities, and the fact that the permit system acts as a measure to block those undesirable elements. I note that in response to the emergency intervention the Police Federation of Australia argued in support of the permit system, but there have also been some contrary positions put. I am relying on the briefing paper provided by the Parliamentary Library research service for information on assertions and counterassertions in relation to this. Vince Kelly, the head of the Northern Territory Police Association, has more recently asserted, according to the information provided by the library research service, that there is no evidence that the permit system hinders illegal behaviour. He said:

The permit system does not stop grog running or sexual assault. It did not stop these things in the past, it will not stop them in the future. These are policing issues unrelated to the permit system.

I do not know if Senator Crossin wants me to take her up on her invitation, but I would be happy to visit communities at some stage in the future with Senator Crossin.