Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Hansard source

The opposition opposes these amendments. As I have been saying throughout the debate, we measure amendments and proposals against the yardstick of impact on jobs and small business. In the ideal world everyone might get entitlement to redundancy but, once small business learn that they might be made responsible for certain redundancy payments, the cost of employment increases. Basic economics tells you that once the cost increases for an item, even if it is labour, the demand for it will decrease. As a result, small businesses will try their utmost to ensure they do not have to have that extra impost and therefore they will not be employing as many people. When you are confronted with that reality—as somebody like me who moves amongst small business people on a very regular basis is—you realise the long hours that small business people work. One of the reasons for that is they do not and cannot afford to put on another employee. The more costly you make it, the more likely you are to deny somebody the opportunity of a job.

It sounds good in principle but when you then apply it in practice it means that small business people, who are the engine room of employment in this country, will be less likely to employ. I am then confronted with a situation: is it better for employers to employ people without redundancy or not employ them at all? I say it is better that they be employed even without redundancy provisions than not be employed at all. That is what guides our stance in relation to this.

Can I finish by simply saying in relation to this issue that we are talking about small business in these amendments, yet we have not defined what small business is. That is why I again put the proposition to the Senate, before we go through all these amendments, that we should in fact have fixed by the Senate what the number of employees that defines a small business is, so that we can actually debate with some certainty what it is we are talking about. I note the minister is not minded to do this, but I think this is another example as to why the issue of small business and the numbers should be determined now rather than towards the end of this debate.

Question negatived.