Nick Xenophon (SA, Independent) Share this | Hansard source

Since we will be voting for the amendments in a rolling block, in a sense, I will indicate that in terms of the psychology of small businesses there is a level of apprehension out there in the smaller cafes and the businesses that employ a lower number of employees. This is about supporting them, and job creation, in terms of their confidence. I think it is fair to say that I would not be moving this if it meant that there was no protection. But instead there is a simplified code—a fair dismissal code—which I think will give those small employers comfort in terms of dealing with these matters in a streamlined fashion. It is about giving those small businesses the confidence to continue to take on people. A threshold of 15 is simply too low.

Senator Boyce has mentioned the ILO, the OECD and the EU in terms of definitions of small business but can I indicate that the definition of 20 persons—it is not 20 FTE; I do not want to mis-state the position at all—which is the definition here in Australia, is accepted by the Australian Bureau of Statistics and it is the threshold used by the Telecom Ombudsman for a number of disputes. The Small Business Coalition supports it as does the Council of Small Business Organisations of Australia. ASIC, I think, uses it in terms as a criterion for grants. The Commonwealth uses it for grants for TCF, and DEEWR uses it for employment skills in relation to disabilities. Twenty is the threshold; it is a consistent figure in legislation. So 15 is out of kilter with respect to the definition that has been established over many years in Australia, albeit much lower than what has occurred in other jurisdictions. I think that 20 is much more reasonable.

And I believe that number is much more reasonable in the context of the current economic circumstances. I know the government says that this should be for both the good times and the bad times, and I accept that, but given that the government has had two stimulus packages, and the thrust of those was about making sure that there was confidence in the economy, I think that it is important that we do not lose sight of the nervousness of small businesses to take on staff. And the fact is that there will be a statutory safeguard through the unfair dismissal code—and that, to me, is a fundamental issue to be considered in relation to this.

In terms of the onerousness or otherwise of having a full-time equivalent calculation, COSBOA, the Council of Small Business of Australia has indicated in their correspondence to me that they feel that that is not a significant issue. That is something that can be calculated and the amendment does provide for regulations to put that in place. I respect the Greens’ position and I respect the government’s position but I think the figure 20 is more realistic in the context of what a definition of a small business is in this country.