Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Hansard source

I will respond to Senator Xenophon. In relation to our amendment seeking to include the views of the employer, I would have thought that it would not be a matter of concern for anybody in this chamber. Employers are actually the people doing the employing, and I would have thought it would make good sense for the employers to have a say. If I understood the minister correctly, he said that this would be allowed anyway. If that is what the minister is saying, the worst case that can be made against this particular amendment is that we will be protecting employers with a belt and braces and there is nothing to undermine the regime. We are not so sure that the employers have got the belt on the trousers courtesy of the government legislation and that is why we are seeking to affix the braces. We believe there has in fact been no cogent argument other than it might just be otiose or duplicating. If that is the only danger, for the sake of looking after the employers, we see no difficulty with that.

In relation to Senator Xenophon’s concerns about outworkers, firstly, as I understand the regime, there is a specific, separate regime in relation to right of entry dealing with outworkers. Secondly, as I understand the industry, there is no real difficulty in determining which union represents those workers. They are very clearly looked after by one particular union. Thirdly, I would say to Senator Xenophon that our amendments will only apply—and I stress this—when there is an application already before Fair Work Australia to determine the rights of representation. When a proactive step has been taken and an application is already before Fair Work Australia for their consideration but for which there has not yet been a determination, to visit a penalty upon an employer who is confused but has acted in good faith and is saying, ‘I’m waiting on Fair Work Australia to make a determination, but I honestly do not believe this union to be covering the workers,’ I would have thought that an employer in those circumstances should avoid having a penalty applied to them.

That is the very discrete area that we are looking at in relation to our amendments. I commend them to the Senate. If Senator Xenophon has any other questions, I would say to him: given the hour, only ask them if there is a real chance of me being able to convince you to vote for the amendments.