Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Veterans' Affairs) Share this | Hansard source

I believe the ayes have it.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (12:22): A division is required, but this is tricky because we cannot have any divisions until after 12.30 pm, so we cannot get out of this committee for another six or so minutes. I will call Senator Wright, who might want to respond until 12.30 to some of your earlier points. I have no other way but to continue in that manner.

Point of order. My understanding from matters that occurred earlier is that once a division is called for it will put any further debate back until the appropriate time.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (12:23): That is correct, but under the agreement between the parties in the Senate I cannot call the division until 12.30 pm. We are in a bind here. Your question must be put immediately, which I cannot do until 12.30. Once that is voted on, depending on the outcome of that vote, that would determine whether or not we progress with this bill. So we have a five-minute delay.

I seek leave to make a statement.

Leave granted.

I thought it would be! But only for five minutes. We are insisting on this matter being put and voted on, because we do not believe that within 24 hours the government cannot ascertain from the Vietnam Veterans Federation, the RSL and Legacy whether this addendum to the EM clarifies their concerns. I am completely and utterly gobsmacked—to use an expression my children use—that the government is not actually asking the question, because this may well resolve this issue. If the RSL, the Vietnam Veterans Federation and Legacy come back and say that the addendum satisfies all their queries, my view would be that the opposition would look very seriously at that. If they come back and say that it still does not clarify their concerns, then that position would surely require a change of attitude from the government in relation to the progress of this matter.

This is not a political point between the government and the opposition. This is about whether or not we are prepared to take a risk in relation to entitlements and in relation to people's futures. Surely it is incumbent upon the chamber to do that. For the sake of just four, five or six hours, go back to the RSL. I will call it now: if I get a phone call from the RSL, from the Vietnam Veterans Federation and from Legacy that this amendment satisfies their concerns I give the parlia­mentary secretary an undertaking that we will not oppose this schedule.

The chamber needs to understand that we are opposed to this schedule because those who know best what the likely outcome of this schedule might be have been opposed to it themselves. This debate is not rocket science. If those organisations are concerned about it, then we should be concerned about it. If their concerns have not been clarified to their satisfaction then we should be con­cerned about what the outcomes might be. Why not just send this addendum off to these three groups and then can come back to us. We can put this off until tomorrow. I give the parliamentary secretary and the minister my undertaking that if these groups come back and say, 'That has satisfied our queries,' that will be the end of the matter and it will go through. But we are not prepared to stand here when those three organisations, and presumably others, have expressed that they are dissatisfied with what has been promised to date and that they still have concerns. I cannot believe that Senator Wright, whom I have known for a long time, would not be prepared to accept that we need to get this clarified. We can then move on from this matter. I do not want to see anything occur that is going to impact on other parts of the bill, but I am not going to cop it today by supporting a schedule that is not supported by very significant sections of the ESOs. Let them have a look at this amended EM. Let them come back and tell the government they are happy with it. If I get the same phone call, this matter will be dealt with and we can move on to other legislation. You have my firm undertaking that if Legacy, the Vietnam Veterans Federation and the RSL say that the addendum to the EM meets their concerns that will be the end of the matter. But we are not prepared to sell these organisations down the river. We are not prepared potentially to risk the rights of veterans in this country. We are not prepared to take this from being legislation to being a regulation. I cannot believe that anyone in this chamber would not be prepared to accept that we need to get some clarification about the addendum from those who are opposed to it. I am sure my colleague would be very happy to hear from the RSL, because my colleague sat in on this inquiry. Senator Fawcett was there and he heard the National President of the RSL expressing his concerns. If the National President of the RSL comes back to Senator Fawcett, Senator Eggleston and me and says, 'We are prepared to accept what is in the addendum,' then the matter gets through.

I ask the government: please, just for the sake of four or five hours, go and get some advice in relation to this. It should have been done beforehand. Everyone knows it should have been done beforehand. It was not, but let's just get on with it. I will have nothing further to say about the lack of consultation if we defer this, find out what it is and come back. We can get it listed. We can get it slotted in. We can get it done and dusted very quickly. There are no more speakers. We are in committee. We can deal with this. Let's deal with it on the back of reasonable knowledge about the people who are not owed a disservice from this chamber by not being consulted in relation to it. I ask the Greens: if the government is not prepared to accept this, please support us for the sake of literally four or five hours. It may well be that this can be clarified this afternoon—I do not know. But it is a matter of getting this material to those organisations who are owed the courtesy of consultation by everyone in the chamber—not just the government, not just the opposition, not just the Greens and not just Senator Xenophon and Senator Madigan. Everyone in this chamber owes them the courtesy of finding out what their views are in relation to this matter.

Question put:

That progress be reported.

The committee divided. [12:36]

(The Chairman—Senator Parry)

Senator Collins did not vote, to compensate for the vacancy caused by the resignation of Senator Coonan.

Question negatived.