Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Hansard source

I listened carefully to Senator Payne's contribution and in no way do I doubt her very genuine and real concern for these issues around Indigenous employment. These are incredibly difficult issues which governments of both persuasions have struggled with for decades. I have listened to some of my colleagues who have spent their whole lives dedicated to progressing the cause of our Indigenous people with programs. We only had to listen to Senator Crossin the other night as she explained that we cannot impose these things on Indigenous people: we have to talk to them, to consult with them, to enter into partnerships with them and to work with them to get the best results. I will not say that everything this government has done has been perfect in this regard, because it has not been. But, as I say, all governments have struggled very sincerely with these issues. I do not doubt for a second this government's intention to try to get the best possible outcomes. Often implementation is incredibly difficult. The process of consultation and working with different communities is very problematic. I have chaired Senate estimates where I have heard Senator Scullion talk about a whole range of issues in remote areas. We have explored some of the incredible difficulties about consultation in remote areas, getting people on board and getting commitments from the local community to get some of these things to happen.

I do not want anyone to think that there is not a very genuine attempt by this government to make a real difference in Indigenous employment, because that genuine attempt is absolutely there for all to see. As I said, is it perfect? It is not. But it has been a problem for many, many years, and I know Senator Payne comes to this debate with very genuine intentions. Senator Macdonald's contribution was not worth listening to at all. But let me—