Scott Ludlam (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Hansard source

I thank the Attorney-General for actually providing an answer. As I suspected, it does allow us to move the committee stage debate forward on the areas that I am interested in. I should acknowledge, in response to the Attorney-General's helpful advice about who he wants to take questions from and who he thinks should be running the debate, that I am here in my capacity as a shadow spokesperson for defence. The area of questioning that I want to put to the Attorney-General mainly revolves around the operation or interoperation of ASIS and the ADF. This may be a question that goes outside the Attorney-General's portfolio so if you want to take this on notice I will understand.

I thank the minister for clarifying that nothing in this act impinges on section 6(4) of the Intelligence Services Act, so it is not that ASIS's role has profoundly changed and this is about intelligence-sharing between ASIS and the ADF. The question really goes to back to a statement that was reported in the Sydney Morning Herald in a piece by Heath Aston on 12 November 2014—not that long ago:

Chief of Joint Operations Vice Admiral David Johnston said Defence is prepared to deliver strikes against Australian citizens fighting for Islamic State, also known as ISIL, provided they are a legitimate target.

The piece noted:

An estimated 71 Australians have fought in Iraq and Syria.

It said that roughly 15 were known to have been killed. I am interested, I guess, Attorney, to know whether it is a change in defence posture that the Australian Defence Force is seeking out and targeting Australian citizens who are fighting Islamic State—or, I guess, on any side of that conflict.

You have, I think, confirmed for us that this will continue not to be ASIS's role, which is something of a relief. Nonetheless, my reading of the way that this bill has been drafted is that it will effectively streamline intelligence-sharing between ASIS and the ADF. If it is an ADF policy to seek out and target Australian nationals fighting for Islamic State then I think that is an area of concern.

Recognising that you would be outside your portfolio in terms of the positioning of the ADF in these matters, I wonder nonetheless whether you can enlighten us as to whether it is the policy of Australian Defence personnel fighting in Iraq—or potentially in Syria if we end up there—to seek out and target Australian citizens. Is that the purpose behind allowing ASIS these more streamlined intelligence-sharing powers with the ADF?