George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Hansard source

Senator Lambie, the problem you identify of Australian citizens who are engaged in fighting with ISIL, or Daesh, as people more commonly refer to them today, is indeed a very grave problem. I can tell you, Senator Lambie, and indeed the Senate, that the last figures on which I was briefed by ASIO tell me that the assessment of the current number is 92. That number has grown significantly over recent months.

Those people do commit a crime. I am not going to prejudge any issues but undoubtedly, if you fight in a foreign civil war—particularly if you fight against Australian personnel—you commit a crime against Australian law. The crime, Senator Lambie, is much more specific than the treason and sedition offences in the Criminal Code. Indeed, one of the measures that this Senate passed last year—with your support, Senator Lambie, for which I am grateful—is the foreign fighters bill which, among other things, incorporated some pre-existing provisions from 1979 into the Criminal Code which make it clear that, if you are an Australian citizen and you are engaged in fighting in a foreign civil war, that is an offence against Australian law. People have been prosecuted and convicted of that offence—not just in the Middle East, by the way, but in other theatres as well.

You asked me about the Australians onshore who are engaged in supporting or assisting those people. To facilitate terrorism—to finance terrorism—is also an offence against other provisions of the Criminal Code and again, Senator Lambie, those are much more specific and targeted provisions than the treason and sedition offences you identify. Perhaps your supplementary will give you the opportunity to— (Time expired)