Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party) Share this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Ludlam for bringing that to my attention. I did say I was not sure if it was costed, so I do not believe I have misled the Senate at all. But I do appreciate his bringing that figure of $90 million to my attention. As I have said earlier, they have not produced any evidence of corruption, but they want to spend $90 million on a problem that does not exist. It shows and confirms the approach of the Greens towards broader economic issues and towards the public debate. They have no concern for the spending of public money and they are quite happy to make a proposal costing Australian taxpayers millions of dollars when they have brought no evidence in to suggest that it is an issue, and they know that it has no chance of passing here today. They do not try to argue anything—they do not go around to us all and say, 'Do you want to vote for this? It might be a good idea.' They do not do any of that. They do not work with other political parties and senators to try to convince them; all they do is come into this chamber and put forward stunts. It is not for this chamber. It is not for getting legislation through and effective policies implemented. For them it is all for exposure and political purposes, and it is all about the stunt. It is all about the stunt with the Greens.

Again, as I was going to say before I was interrupted, not only do the Greens present no evidence for this body to be implemented, they then go on and ignore the fact that we actually have a variety of agencies in place in Australia to deal with anticorruption. Indeed, we have one primary body whose task is to put a check on corruption in Australia—the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity. It is charged specifically with investigating corruption allegations, and has been in existence for some years. Indeed, last year its investigations led to the arrest of an Australian Federal Police officer for allegations of corruption. While we rank highly on corruption relative to other countries there is no doubt that sometimes, unfortunately, it does occur and we should of course have appropriate law enforcement agencies looking at these issues and enforcing the law when the law is breached. The Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity is the primary body, but other bodies also assist in this task, including the Australian Crime Commission, the Australian Border Force and the Australian Federal Police themselves.

This government has sought to strengthen the resources available in this field and to these bodies. The Australian government has made an extra million dollars available to the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity to help its own activities. Personally, I think that is a much more responsible approach to this issue than picking up $90 million from the air. I am not exactly sure what this $90 million will be used for; it will be a massive bureaucracy, no doubt. But there is no clear issue with the way corruption is handled at a federal level, and it is good that the government is continuing to make sure it is well-resourced, because it is a very important area. The government has also announced Task Force Pharos, which is looking particularly at the issues of corruption in the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service. There have been a number of issues raised there in the last few years and, again, it is right and proper that something specific has been established here to investigate.

With the time available to me I want to move to the broader issues of establishing an anticorruption body like the one the Greens want to establish. It is not just that this would create a bureaucracy and cost money, it is that the kind of body the Greens want to establish will, and does, at state government levels restrict individual liberties. I believe that at times it is appropriate for liberties to be restricted where there is appropriate public policy concern, but I note that generally the Greens are not on that side. Generally, when issues restricting individual liberties come forward in this chamber—and they have a number of times in the past year—the Greens oppose those changes. We have passed legislation in the past year that has restricted liberties to help try to protect our country against terrorist activities. I believe they have been appropriate changes to the law, and I note the Labor Party's support for those changes—they are serious issues.

We should seriously consider any time we seek to restrict individual liberty but, generally speaking—and certainly particularly speaking on these issues in the past year—the Greens have opposed those changes because they see it as a breach of human rights to restrict individual liberty. It is well within their right to hold those positions, but I note here that they do not then outline why and make a case for why liberties should be restricted here in this instance. Also, there is no case being made in human rights law or in philosophy about why it would be right and proper to restrict liberties in this case. These bodies have very specific powers at the state level. ICAC and, in my state, the Crime and Corruption Commission, have the power to force people to give evidence and that, traditionally, has been something that has been protected in common law and in other similar countries in constitutions.

We do not have what is colloquially known as 'taking the fifth' in this country, but in the United States they have a constitution in their Bill of Rights of protection against being forced to give evidence, particularly where you would incriminate yourself. But we do have a tradition in English common law that this is not permissible; that the powers that are given to bodies like ICAC and the CCC are akin to star chambers.

'Star chambers' is a colloquial term from the Middle Ages, when the kings of England would establish chambers to force people to reveal whether or not they had committed the great sin of being a Catholic. These chambers were originally established to force witnesses to divulge whether they were papists and believed in the Pope in Rome and not in the Church of England. Over time, English common law ruled that it was not right and proper to force individuals to provide evidence because people are put in a corner when forced to provide evidence to a court of law or to some chamber or in this case to a corruption body. A person either has to speak the truth and, if they do incriminate themselves, they obviously face the sanction of that particular court of law or they do not give evidence. If they do not give evidence, they are subject to perjury under these bodies. I do not think it is right and proper to force individuals in that case—or in all circumstances.

As I said earlier, sometimes it may be right and proper to restrict liberties. At a state government level they have decided to establish these bodies. They do restrict individual liberties. They do help to get to the root of corruption at certain times, but it is something that needs to be balanced by any responsible government before it is introduced. It needs to be considered at least and the Greens have not even considered these issues in their promotion of this bill. That is a great failing in my view of this particular proposal. We need to seriously consider whether it is right and proper at the federal government level to establish a commission that does restrict individual liberty against the potential benefits of rooting out corruption.

Evidence that corruption is a major issue has not been provided. Therefore, I do not think it is right and proper to go against the hundreds of years of tradition in our legal system that protects individuals against giving evidence that might incriminate a person. On this point, I would like to conclude with some issues in my state. The Crime and Corruption Commission in my state was established after the Fitzgerald inquiry, which exposed serious corruption in Queensland, but what is not commonly known is that the Fitzgerald inquiry did not recommend the establishment of what was then called the Crime and Misconduct Commission for this precise reason—that it would be restrictive of individual liberties and, in their view, was not a necessary response to the issues that the Fitzgerald inquiry uncovered.

There was then a Liberal and National government in Queensland. It did not agree with that recommendation and established the Crime and Misconduct Commission. The Queensland government debated and considered it and, given the serious corruption exposed, thought it was an appropriate response to those activities. I make the point that before we would implement something similar here in the federal sphere, we would want to have that evidence, that exposure of some serious and systematic corruption. That simply has not happened and the Greens have simply not brought that forward and therefore this bill should be opposed by this chamber.