Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Families and Payments) Share this | Hansard source

I rise to speak on the Social Security Legislation Amendment (Debit Card Trial) Bill 2015. The bill seeks to amend the social security law to enable a trial phase of new cashless welfare arrangements in response to the 'healthy welfare card' recommendation from Mr Andrew Forrest's review of Indigenous jobs and training.

The trial is proposed to be conducted in three locations, involving up to 10,000 people. Locations will be selected on the basis of high levels of welfare dependence; where gambling, alcohol and/or drug abuse are causing unacceptable levels of harm within the community; and where there is a level of community support. The participants in this trial are people who reside in the trial locations and who are on working age payments, including Newstart, disability support and carer payments. Age pensioners and wage earners can volunteer.

In rising to speak on this bill I acknowledge the significant harm caused by alcohol abuse and the related violence. The Community Affairs Legislation Committee inquiry into this bill heard from residents about the devastating impacts that alcohol abuse and violence have in communities across Australia, in particular the committee heard about the destructive impact they have on Ceduna, the first trial site for this initiative, and the surrounding communities.

I had the pleasure yesterday of having a delegation from Ceduna come and meet with me to talk about this piece of legislation. Labor understands the need to take action to address these problems. However, in seeking to do so, this debit card legislation should not be rushed or avoid proper scrutiny. Indeed, the Labor senators' report from the Community Affairs Legislation Committee goes to this very point. The proposed trial will have significant implications for the lives of those living in the trial sites and, if it is planned and implemented well, these implications will be positive. However, if the proposed trial is rushed and implemented without the appropriate supports, the trial will not only likely fail but will also have a negative impact on people's lives. Unfortunately, this is what Mr Tudge has sought to do. The bill was introduced without important details being worked out, and we heard that concern in some of the contributions to this bill by other senators yesterday. This concern was evident throughout the Senate committee inquiry process, with the department being unable to explain crucial details about the trial, particularly the supports that would accompany this.

Rushing proper consideration of this legislation and its impacts is nothing more than irresponsible and could potentially undermine the very outcomes that the trail seeks to achieve. I acknowledge that Mr Tudge has provided further detail about the trial in a letter to our shadow ministers, Jenny Macklin and Shane Neumann. However, significant issues remain unresolved. In fact, this additional information was provided by Mr Tudge only on Sunday afternoon and only after the shadow ministers wrote to him expressing Labor's concerns. Mr Tudge used his response as an opportunity to attack Labor and question our commitment to supporting community leaders to respond to the harm caused by alcohol in their communities. Mr Tudge must realise that this is not about playing politics, it is not about scoring cheap shots; this is about making long-term change. This type of long-term change will be possible only if this trial is implemented properly, and this can happen only through proper consideration of the debit card trial legislation and its implications.

Labor will not be badgered into rushing its consideration of the legislation. Labor wants to ensure that the debit card trial achieves the best outcomes for participating communities, and this will happen only if we properly consider the proposal. The proposal in the bill stems from the healthy welfare card recommendation from Mr Andrew Forrest's review of Indigenous jobs and training. The trial, which has been designed in response to the report's recommendations and would be established through this bill, intends to test whether significantly reducing access to cash can reduce the habitual abuse and associated harm from alcohol, gambling and illegal drugs. Under the trial, access to cash for income support recipients would be limited by placing a significant proportion of a person's welfare payments into a restricted bank account. The bill will also enable a community body to be involved in determining welfare arrangements within a trial location. We note that the bill does not include where these locations will be and that, instead, these trial areas will be specified later through legislative instrument. We do know, however, that the bill allows the trial to be conducted in up to three locations for up to 10,000 people.

As my colleagues have mentioned, a memorandum of understanding has already been signed for Ceduna and the surrounding area to be the first trial location. The trial sites are to be determined on the basis of need—selected on the basis of high levels of welfare dependence, where gambling, alcohol and drug abuse are causing unacceptable levels of harm within the community. The bill establishes that in these locations 80 per cent of regular payments and 100 per cent of lump sum payments received by people on a working-age income support payment will be placed in a restricted bank account. The remaining 20 per cent of payments will be put in the bank account of the recipient's choice. This money will be available for use at the individual's discretion. Trial participants will include people in receipt of Newstart allowance, parenting payment, disability support pension and carer payment. Age pension recipients will not be part of the trial automatically, but they could volunteer to be included. A trial participant will not be able to use the debit card linked to the restricted account to access cash or purchase gambling products and services, alcohol or illegal drugs.

I think it is important to note that the new debit card arrangements are very different from the income management program. Unlike with income management, participants on the new debit card will receive no assistance from Centrelink workers with budgeting and to make sure that the income support payments are directed to life's essentials, like rent, food and items of clothing. The new debit card will ensure only that the majority of income support payments cannot be spent on alcohol or gambling products. For this reason it is critical that the trial include the appropriate support services to ensure that the proposal can support people to tackle the very complex and often intergenerational problems that confront these communities.

The need for a comprehensive package of support to accompany the debit card was raised in a number of the submissions to the Senate inquiry. The submission from Empowering Communities put it clearly when they stated:

The card alone will not solve the underlying factors which lead to drug, alcohol and gambling abuse, or the harm they cause.

The submissions highlighted that supports and services had to be part of any effort to meaningfully respond to the harm caused by alcohol abuse. In their submission to the Senate committee inquiry, Yalata Community Incorporation states:

It is the strong view of Yalata and other Aboriginal leaders that the cashless debit card by itself will not address the problems caused by alcohol. The success of the trial will be determined by the other support measures that are implemented at the same time.

If these accompanying supports and services are not provided, this trial is surely bound to fail and to merely act to penalise income support recipients in trial sites. As such, this new card should not be seen as a solution for all the problems in these communities.

Labor is unwavering in its commitment to helping communities tackle alcohol and drug abuse and the harm it causes. Labor is firm in our commitment to protecting individuals, particularly women and children and those who are most vulnerable within our community, from these harms. Frankly, it is appalling that Mr Tudge has sought to colour Labor's insistence on appropriate oversight and consideration of the trial as anything but a commitment to making certain that the proposed debit card trial will help these communities and protect vulnerable people.

Labor wants to ensure that the trial is sufficiently comprehensive to drive the long-term positive change needed for all communities that may be impacted. Labor knows that alcohol abuse and the harm it causes is having a devastating impact on the lives of people in some communities. However, Labor is concerned that the proposed debit card trial and related bill is not sufficiently comprehensive to meet its stated aims—to tackle alcohol, drug and gambling abuse and the harm it causes to particular communities. We are also concerned that insufficient evidence was provided about how the bill will operate and note that many of the details are yet to be worked through.

As I previously indicated, during the Senate committee inquiry we heard that there was a level of confusion about what had been agreed for the proposed trial. I share the concerns expressed during the inquiry that the consultations on the trial have been unsatisfactory to date. This does not undermine Labor's commitment to addressing alcohol abuse and harm. It does not undermine Labor's understanding of the desperate need for action to support long-term change. I completely reject Mr Tudge's characterisation that Labor is turning its back on what community leaders are saying or that we are placing the trial at risk by asking additional questions about the trial. This is scaremongering and avoidance of fulsome scrutiny of the legislation.

Rather, it is Labor's commitment to addressing these issues and our understanding that action is needed that drive our consideration of this bill. Labor is committed to supporting community leaders in responding to the harm caused in their communities through fulsome consideration of the legislation and its implications. We believe that this will ultimately support a better long-term outcome for people living in the proposed trial communities. As I have already stated, Labor is working hard to make sure that the trial is robust and will support its stated aims: tackling alcohol abuse and the harm it causes. That is why we are working hard to make sure that additional supports will be in place for participating communities, like drug and alcohol services, family violence services and financial management programs. I welcome the commitment of these supports to Ceduna, but this trial will impact on other locations and it will be critical that they receive similar adequate supports and services.

Another important element of the proposal, that Labor supports in principle, is the community panel model. However, it was clear from the evidence to the Senate committee inquiry that there is a lack of shared understanding about how a community panel could operate and when it might commence. This is largely due to the fact that there has been insufficient information from the government about the role and responsibilities of such a panel. The lack of detail and public information about exactly how the trial would operate was a consistent theme throughout the submissions to the Senate inquiry. Submissions from organisations such as Financial Counselling Australia, Consumer Action Law Centre and the National Welfare Rights Network highlighted a number of details and issues that they believed had not been worked out or made public.

These submissions raised concerns that many of the details about how the debit card will operate are yet to be finalised or sufficiently worked through, including how funds were to be managed, by which financial institution, privacy considerations and compliance monitoring. Submissions also raised concerns with the fact that the debit card trial would apply to all people on a working-age payment, with no mechanism for people to come off the debit card.

Many people in receipt of income support payments are responsibly managing their payments and in the interests of their family and children. These people may not individually benefit from the debit card. For this reason Labor would support further consideration as to whether people should be able to come off the debit card if they meet certain criteria. A mechanism like this would also act to encourage positive change for people who may be on the debit card. And while I welcome Mr Tudge's belated efforts to provide some of the details about the trial, it is simply unacceptable that the government thinks that the Senate should pass this legislation without having properly considered the detail and implications of the proposal.

Another significant issue which Labor is seeking assurances from the government on is the trial evaluation. Ahead of the commencement of the trial it is vital that a robust evaluation framework is in place. Without this type of evaluation any trial is pointless and we will not develop the evidence on the impacts. This is precisely the reason for having a trial.

Labor will continue to hold the government to account and to make sure that any outstanding details are worked through and agreed prior to a trial commencing. Once the government has provided the additional information sought we will be prepared to vote on the bill.

The trial of the proposed debit card is a significant measure that has implications for communities across Australia, beyond those where the trial will proceed. Labor acknowledges that it could have benefits for communities affected by alcohol abuse. It is important that the legislation is developed robustly and not be rushed. Labor, in government, followed a far more comprehensive and detailed process in developing substantive welfare reform measures of this type. Labor hopes the government will work hard in the coming months to rectify the shortcomings so that we can reach agreement on this bill.

We look forward to the government providing a full and detailed response on the outstanding issues that will then enable an informed debate on the bill. Again I note that the concern about the lack of detail that has been expressed by other senators in their contributions is, I believe, widespread in groups that are interested in this trial. I recommend that the government take up the Labor senators' recommendation in terms of the Senate community affairs inquiry into this bill, which asked that the bill not be progressed until there are sufficient consultations carried out in all the possible trial communities and a consultation report with proposed trial communities is made public.

There are a number of other points that the Labor senators on the committee made in their recommendation 2 on this bill. We again ask the government to make public the details of consultations, exactly how the debit card will work and the operations of the bill—including possible community involvement; income quarantining decision making; how people will transition from income management; agreement on the financial institutions; and, as I and other contributors to this debate have already mentioned, privacy considerations. Of course, very importantly, the compliance monitoring is to be made public.

I think it is quite clear from the contributions to this debate—not just from Labor senators but from other senators—that there are a number of concerns that a lot of details on how the debit card will work in the trial areas are not in this bill. A lot of questions have been asked that are currently unanswered, and the government needs to provide those answers to enable a robust and fully-informed debate to take place.