Lee Rhiannon (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Hansard source

I am happy to acknowledge all of the interjections. Minister, there are some very simple, straightforward questions here. The Fair Work Commissioner, Julius Roe, stated in his final recommendations on the EBA:

The role of volunteers in fighting bushfires and maintaining community safety and delivering high quality services to the public in remote and regional areas and in integrated stations is not altered by this Agreement.

Minister, there it is: 'not altered by this Agreement'. It negates everything you have said. This is from the Fair Work Commissioner, Julius Roe. You, yourself, have just said to us that the Fair Work Commission is' 'the umpire'. So you need to answer this question, because if you cannot acknowledge that Julius Roe has said that it actually negates all the arguments that you have been trying to pull out of a hat by cherry picking quotes from different documents that are barely relevant to the debate that we are having here. If you cannot do that are you really then saying that you know better than a Fair Work Commissioner, or that you disagree with the Fair Work Commissioner—somebody that you have just told us is 'the umpire' in all this?

Also, we need to have some details. You have had questions from different senators tonight asking for clear details about the clauses. It is not good enough just to get up there and rattle off your usual comments. We are in committee. You should be identifying the clauses, quoting the bit that supports your argument and then explaining why it does. But you have failed time and time again. But here are some more opportunities.

There are these allegations around clothing and equipment. What we do know is that the UFU, the union, will be allowed consultation on these issues. There are dispute resolution offices if the parties do not agree. And what we also know is that time and time again benefits won by the UFU flow on to volunteers. So minister, do you acknowledge that is how the current system works? That it works in a cooperative way where you are seeing the benefits flow on—or are you going to still run the hard line that you are running about clothing?

Then there are these other allegations, that the career and volunteer crews cannot share trucks. Are you really going to continue that dishonest line? Volunteers and paid staff can share trucks. They do share trucks and they will continue to share trucks. We know that. We know that happens.

Then there is the allegation that paid staff can only report to paid staff. Again, that has been dealt with many times in this debate. Are you still going to run that line? Are you still going to deny the truth that volunteers can continue to be incident controllers, as occurs at present? The agreement clearly allows staff to report to incident controllers who are volunteers. Are you going to continue to deny that? This is where I again remind you, Minister—you have sat in this place long enough; you know what is supposed to happen in the committee stage—that this is the opportunity for senators to question ministers about the details of a bill. That is what you are failing to do.

And then there is one other area that you need to come in on because you paid a lot of attention to this tonight—that is, this issue of appliances and making out all these supposedly shocking things that the union has done in not allowing various appliances to be used. There is this allegation that no new appliances can be used without UFU approval. But you must know that the truth is that the process for volunteer procurement, including appliances, remains unchanged. That is why I will go back to the quote, because this is where you need to start your answer, Minister. This would be a way of short-circuiting it, if you could be truthful about what the Fair Work Commissioner Julius Roe has said. This is in his final recommendations on the EBA. He states:

The role of volunteers in fighting bushfires and maintaining community safety and delivering high quality services to the public in remote and regional areas and in integrated stations is not altered by the this agreement.

Do you agree with that statement, Minister?