John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Hansard source

It would not take that long, Senator Fierravanti-Wells? No, it would not take that long. Give me $1,000 cash; I will put on a wig, a beard, an earring, some jeans and thongs and go underground to see if I could buy a weapon in Sydney. I think at the end of the day I would have a black market weapon, for sure.

But the point I make, again, is that the Howard government led the debate with the states to bring in the laws, a register—tougher gun laws. We handed our guns in. Senator Wong was saying that I support slackening the laws. No. With the Adler, under class A—shotguns are in class A—I wanted the Adler seven shot to go into class B. As a farmer, I can have a class B rifle; I can get a 44 Magnum 10 shot repeater under class B. Why wouldn't you put a seven shot shotgun in class B? I see it as a tool of trade for the farmers, especially helicopter shooting of wild pigs. I had one senator say to me, 'You can't shoot wild pigs with shotguns!' I said, 'Of course you do.' In fact, Mark Coulton, the member for Parkes, was telling me that in a helicopter day out over the Gwydir wetlands last year 900 pigs were shot. They use No. 4 cartridges and No. 5, used for shooting much smaller birds or whatever—pests. They use SGs or SSGs—large lead shells. That was a tool of the trade. I would like to have seen that go into category B, as Minister Troy Grant, the police minister in New South Wales, suggested. I think he was right. It was not easing the gun laws. It was in class A and it had been there for many years. Class A is too lenient for a seven-shot repeat shotgun. There is no problem at all for the slow-moving projectile from a double-barrel or single-barrel gun.

Back to this debate, all my life I have heard of people committing various criminal activities—terrible crimes. Then you hear their punishment and you think, 'What is the judge doing? Oh, they were brought up in a single family. They had a bad upbringing; they were neglected; they were beaten or whatever.' The punishment does not fit the crime—we hear of that situation so often. It must be terribly frustrating for the police who get out there and catch the criminals and DPP prosecutors put them through the court. They are found guilty but when it comes to sentencing, it is just a smack on the hand with a feather.

I support this legislation and I have wanted it for many years. I am glad to see it coming through at a federal level. I thought we would have to go through the states, and so it is good it is coming through the federal parliament so that it sends a clear message right across Australia, which says: 'You break the law, you traffic in illegal weapons. You try to bring our society down, you try to make money out of this by putting weapons in the hands of people who should not have hold of them—people who would rob banks or service stations or commit murder and serious harm to fellow Australians.' They should be punished severely, and this legislation does exactly that.

In winding up, I have explained why the gun buyback was there and why the Adler seven shot should have gone into category B. That is the case for the National Firearms Agreement between the states to work through that issue. I am very pleased to see these minimum laws come in, because, as I say for a third time, we see so many judges and magistrates hand out punishments that simply do not fit the crime. If that is going to be the case, we will see more of this legislation come through state and federal parliaments over the years ahead. When we see judges handing out a punishment that is too lenient, too soft, there is no deterrent for the general public to commit that crime. There has to be a deterrent, and then people know that if they go in for trafficking guns or weapons and pistols and if they get caught—and it is highly likely that they will—it is five years in the pen minimum. It is a very good thing to send a strong message to the minority of Australian people who wish to get involved in this industry and do the wrong thing that this is what you are going to face under the legislation. I support the legislation.