John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Hansard source

That is a fact, and I am sure the truth hurts, Senator Bilyk. If the truth hurts, you just have to take it on board. What is the flexibility for a small business as far as these weekend rates go? None. There is no flexibility. The flexibility for big business was established by Labor. Yes, they have the flexibility. I want to quote some of what the Ai Group have said. In a letter to me, they said:

First, penalty rates are not being abolished.

And that is a fact. The rates are not being abolished, and people deserve to be paid more when working inconvenient days, especially holidays. They go on:

The Sunday weekend penalty rates for Level 1 fast food workers will be aligned with the Saturday rate of 125% for permanent employees and 150% for casuals. This is a relatively modest reduction from 150% and 175% respectively. Even higher penalties will apply to fast food employees classified at Levels 2 and 3. The public holiday penalty rate will be adjusted to 225% for permanent employees and 250% for casuals. A similar modest reduction.

Second, the adjustment in Sunday penalty rates will be phased-in over at least two annual increments, commencing on 1 July this year. The incremental adjustment in Sunday penalty rates will occur on the same day that employees will receive a minimum wage increase through the Commission's Annual Wage Review.

And when a pay rise comes through, the umpire will put it through, and business will pay it. They have to, just like we did in the shearing industry. When the award was changed and the pay rate was increased the employers paid it. The Ai Group say:

Third, penalty rates for nurses, firefighters and indeed all workers are not under any threat whatsoever. The Commission's decision only concerns fast food, retail and hospitality industry workers. There are some unique issues in these industries and no-one is suggesting that penalty rates for nurses or firefighters should be changed.

I have a lot to do with small business, being involved in farming small business all my life, and this is what has been happening. I will give you an example. When the school kids would finish their day of schooling and go and work at a local business, the business had to pay them a minimum of three hours. They would only work an hour and a half, so what would happen? One, the business would not employ them, which was a terrible situation when youngsters, 14-year-olds and 15-year-olds, would get their first job, as all of my three children did. They learn a work ethic and learn about getting paid and learn to save some money. The rule used to be that you had to employ them for three hours, so businesses were doing one of three things. Firstly, they would not employ them. Secondly, they would employ them for an hour and a half over two days and then say, 'Here's your three hours wage,' which was wrong. Thirdly, they would simply pay them cash and not put it through the books. That is what happens. That has been changed, thankfully, for the youngsters. If they do an hour and a half's work now they get paid.

Likewise in businesses like the coffee shop in Sydney. What happens if on Sunday they cannot afford to pay the casual rates? Firstly, the proprietors run the shop for the day. If you get out to country pubs on the weekends, who is running the pub on a Sunday? It is the publican and his wife, and they do not employ people or employ very few. The proprietors will run their business with very few or no people employed. Secondly, they will not open a business if they are going to lose money. Thirdly, they will take the illegal option and say to some university student who is wanting some cash on the side, 'Come down to work for me on Sunday morning and I'll pay you $30 an hour cash.' It happens. I know it happens and business knows it happens. As John Laws says, 'Eighty per cent of something is better than 100 per cent of nothing'—as I said, they simply do not open the business. Business is there to make profit. They are not a charity. In fact, business derives the nation's wealth. Businesses employ people, and they pay taxes and that is what keeps the government going. The more you harm business, the more it will bring our living standards down in this country.

I am a big fan of the Pharmacy Guild. Let me tell you what the Pharmacy Guild has said, where they welcome the Fair Work Commission's penalty rate decisions. I will quote their media release:

The Pharmacy Guild welcomes the Fair Work Commission decision on penalty rates which is reasonable, balanced and evidence-based.

This was all done by the Labor Party and the Greens, by the way. Remember, they established it and they ordered the commission to review the penalty rates. The commission has made a decision, and now the very bodies, the Australian Labor Party and the Greens, who established this, are the ones complaining the most.

The Pharmacy Guild says:

Once implemented, this decision will help enable community pharmacies to continue to provide access to vital medicines and other services across weekends and public holidays.

The commission ruled today that 7am-9pm Sunday penalty rates for full and part-time pharmacy employees will be reduced from 200 per cent to 150 per cent and for casuals from 225 per cent to 175 per cent. The rates for public holidays have been reduced from 250 per cent to 225 per cent for full and part-time pharmacy employees, and from 275 per cent to 250 per cent for casuals.

On public holidays, 275 per cent is a big bonus. That is two and three-quarter times the hourly rate. A spokesman for the Pharmacy Guild said the Guild welcomed the decision as a sensible way forward that balances—and I underline 'balances'—the interests of patients, pharmacy staff and local community pharmacy small businesses. They are small businesses and they have suffered. We have even seen pharmacies going into receivership, with administrators and liquidators selling them up. That is something I have never seen in my life. They are a small business and in many respects they do it tough. They go on to say:

It has never been in anyone's interest for pharmacies to be unable to open on Sundays or public holidays.

How true that is. I will repeat it:

It has never been in anyone's interest for pharmacies to be unable to open on Sundays or public holidays.

This decision will help pharmacies to meet community expectations that they will be able to access vital health services seven days a week. I am familiar with this. Just recently my wife had a terrible cold and had to get some medication. Luckily, at 6 o'clock on the Saturday or Sunday afternoon she went into the local pharmacy and got the medication she required on the recommendation of a very good friend and ophthalmologist, Professor Minas Coroneo.

I find it amazing that Mr Shorten and the Labor Party, the huge critics of this whole program, are the ones who established it. Let us look at Mr Shorten's form on penalty rates. When he was the leader of the AWU, Mr Shorten reduced or removed penalty rates for some of Australia's lowest paid workers. I will give you an example. Workers at Clean Event were stripped of all penalty rates under Mr Shorten, as the AWU boss. Workers at Clean Event were stripped of all penalty rates with no compensation under a 2006 agreement for which Mr Shorten was responsible as National Secretary of the AWU. So they were stripped of their penalty rates under Mr Shorten's leadership with no compensation.

The Melbourne and Olympic Parks Trust agreement approved by Mr Shorten in 2001 and 2003 stripped workers of all penalty rates and overtime except a 125 per cent penalty rate for work performed between 1 am and 6 am. So exactly when does Mr Shorten support and when does he oppose cuts to penalty rates? As boss of the AWU he instigated the cuts with no compensation. Now he, along with his team over there, with the Greens, is crying crocodile tears about exactly what he has done to the lowest paid workers in this country. People wonder why politicians are branded with the term 'hypocrisy'. This is amazing.

You over there established the Fair Work Commission. You over there said that they would have a review every four years of penalty rates. That has been done. The umpire has made a decision and here you are crying crocodile tears about what you established and what you have done while your leader, when secretary of the AWU, was responsible for some of the lowest paid income earners in our nation getting a pay cut and having their penalty rates removed with absolutely no compensation. This is just amazing.

I go back to where I started. The umpire has made a decision, just like in the shearing industry when we had the wide comb dispute. It was a terrible fight. It is something I do not wish to raise, because there are sad memories of when we burnt friendships. We were good friends in the shearing sheds but we ended up political enemies over an umpire's decision. On one side was the Australian Workers Union, the very place where Mr Shorten comes from, which was then led by Ernie Ecob. He went to Dubbo, held meetings and told them all to go on strike. The union reps and the union bosses still got paid, but the shearers never got paid when they were on strike. We just went and shore more sheep. The dispute was terrible.

So the umpire is there. The umpire has been set up. You set it up. You abide by the umpire's decision, as Mr Shorten said he would. If you do not, then you are just wallowing in hypocrisy.