Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Hansard source

Labor opposes the disallowance of the Social Security (Administration) (Trial Area) Amendment Determination 2017. We do not believe in a blanket approach to income quarantining. That is not an option for Labor to even consider. We do not believe it should be rolled out nationally. Senator Siewert has strong views on this, and the Greens have strong views, but people that we have engaged with have equally strong views, and people in the communities have equally strong views. Their views are in opposition to the views that the Greens have put here today.

This is an extremely tough issue. This is an issue about future generations as well as the generations that we have trying to deal with the problem now. We understand that the vast majority of people on income support are more than capable of managing their own finances, but the level of alcohol abuse in some communities just cannot be ignored. Labor supports community-driven initiatives designed to tackle alcohol abuse.

When I was listening to Senator Siewert, I had a look at the NACCHO Aboriginal health site, and there was a quote there. I will just read that quote. It is from the Wunan Foundation's Ian Trust, Desmond Hill and Gelganyem Trust chairman Ted Hall. They said:

It is our view that continuing to deliver the same programs we have delivered for the past 40 years will do nothing for our people and, besides wasting more time and money, will condemn our children and future generations to a life of poverty and despair,

Our children will continue to be removed from their families because their families are not safe, many of our children will be born with FASD (fetal alcohol spectrum disorder) and never be able to receive a good education, and a large percentage of our people will go to prison and, in some cases, commit suicide. We believe that this trial could be the catalyst for breaking the cycle of poverty and despair in the East Kimberley.

That is an equally strong opposite view from local community leaders in the Kimberley.

Senator Siewert talks about anecdotes and ideology. I do not think it should be about anecdotes. Labor does not say it should be about anecdotes. We do not believe it should be about ideology. We believe it should be about what the community wants, what the communities need and how we resolve these intergenerational problems. We support, as I have said, community-driven initiatives to tackle alcohol abuse.

We offered our support to the Cashless Debit Card Trial in both Ceduna and Kununurra. We did that because we consulted with local Indigenous communities, and the feedback we got was similar to the quote I gave. It was that people needed help; they needed support; and there was a huge problem that had to be dealt with. So we listened to the people in Ceduna and Kununurra and heard that they are desperate for action to tackle these issues in their communities. Community leaders in both locations offered their support for the Cashless Debit Card Trial. These communities wanted the trials to take place, and we will continue to listen to them in coming months.

The interim evaluation of the trials has also been made publicly available. The evaluation has found that overall the trial has been effective, in particular in reducing alcohol consumption, illegal drug use and gambling. The final evaluation is due to be completed in June this year. We will scrutinise the report and listen to people in both Ceduna and Kununurra about the trials. We will not simply rely on anecdotes or ideology that might underpin any of the arguments or issues; we will listen to the people of Ceduna and Kununurra about the trials.

We know that these problems cannot be ignored—and they will not be solved by income quarantining alone. We are not saying income quarantining will fix these problems. But there is a desperation amongst many of the community leaders and many in the community about trying to deal with these issues. That is why we gained a commitment from the government to provide additional supports for participating communities, including an initial $1 million for community services in Ceduna and an additional $1.3 million to support families in Kununurra. You cannot just put in a debit card and say that will solve the problem. There needs to be wraparound support. There needs to be mental health support. There needs to be health support. There needs to be drug and alcohol support. These are the issues that wrap around the debit card or that should be the fundamental issues that are dealt with in the community.

These are complex, multidimensional problems; they are intergenerational problems; and they are social problems of great significance. The current approach to substance abuse in some areas of Australia is not working, and we must give proper consideration to new ways of addressing the tragic devastation of drug and alcohol abuse.

And it is not just Indigenous communities that are faced with drug and alcohol problems. I have not drunk for I think it is now 40 years. I know I cannot drink, so I do not drink, but I had lots of support to deal with that problem. Not many in Indigenous communities have the support that I had when I knew that I had an alcohol problem. This is an issue that has to be dealt with not just in Indigenous communities but also everywhere else. When I was listening to the debate earlier about taxation on alcohol, I kept thinking back not to the debates about how efficient the alcohol tax should be; I kept thinking back to what my life would have been like if I had not been able to get off alcohol. It would have been devastating. Look at the health problems many families have and the financial problems many families have. The family violence that comes from alcohol and drug abuse is huge, absolutely huge. So I do not find it intellectually substantial for people to come in and argue a point of view when they do not understand these other issues—that it is simply about a card. It is not about a card. It is about far more than a card. People are crying out for help, so there needs to be more help, and it is not just a card that will address the issue. So we have got to find other ways of addressing drug and alcohol abuse.

We do not support introducing a cashless debit card to all young people on social security under the age of 18. There is no formal proposal by the government to do that at this stage. We do not think that welfare quarantining can be useful unless it is well targeted. It has to be well targeted. And we do not believe it should be rolled out nationally. We do not believe in a blanket rollout. We certainly do believe that this is a trial that was requested and sought by community leaders and many in the communities, and we will have a look at the outcome of the second report. We will not simply look at the report, read the report and come to a conclusion.