Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Hansard source

I hear Senator Siewert screaming something from the crossbench about this not being true. I'm sorry, but I will take my advice from people who know—that is, the department that is interested, that does the surveys and that follows these things. It is not part of a political party that simply wants to compete with Labor in the rush to the left in the hope that it might win the seat of Batman.

These are proven results. Although it won't affect 100 per cent of the people, even if you can see a noticeable difference in those impacted, of 30 per cent, then that's got to be a good thing. I repeat: the evidence shows that those who are doing the right thing with their welfare won't be impacted at all. They already spend their money not on alcohol or on drugs or on gambling, but on buying food for their families and children and making sure their children have sufficient resources to attend school as part of the school community in the normal way. Those people are already doing it, so giving them the cashless debit card is not going to make one iota of difference. I cannot understand people like Ms O'Toole who claim some interest in this area, or some expertise in this area in a past life. She would know better than I the impacts on families of drug and alcohol abuse and of gambling abuse. This cashless debit card is a great way to go and assist those families.

The government that doesn't try to break that cycle of loss of self-esteem is being irresponsible in the extreme. The social impacts on affected communities, as everyone who involves themselves in this area will know, are disastrous. Add to that the psychological impact on people who are receiving benefits and who abuse substances. This is a recipe for entering a never-ending cycle of self-harming behaviours that include gambling, alcohol abuse and illicit substance abuse. We as a government feel we have a responsibility to try to help those families who, for whatever reason, are not able to help themselves. I repeat: this won't make any difference to those who can help themselves, because those families already spend the money on the right things. This will only impact upon those who do abuse alcohol and gambling, and it will try to put those families in a situation where—