Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Minister for Indigenous Affairs) Share this | Hansard source

There have been a number of contributions and I thank everybody for them. I particularly acknowledge my senator colleague from Western Australia, Senator Dodson. I know you have an ongoing and genuine interest in this matter, and I thank you for your ongoing interest, mate.

I will try to deal with a number of the questions and assertions that've been put up, but let me, perhaps, get the dross out of the way first. Senator, your contribution certainly stood in stark contrast to the contribution from the shadow housing minister. I wasn't actually aware that Senator Cameron was the shadow housing minister. When he got to the four-minute mark he decided to blither on to personal insults and to say that the National Party doesn't care about Indigenous people. I guess we're used to it. There are some people in this place—there's certainly one—who everybody in Australia should factor in. He is so offensive in his nature that he should just be ignored. We do our best under a torrent of specific and personal offence given by this man. We don't forgive him. He's just what he is and we just ignore it. It was insightful that he ran out of steam after four minutes and went into the remainder with the of sort of rubbish he normally makes in a contribution.

But h should be held to account for a couple of things. He said that Indigenous homelessness has increased. He's the shadow minister, he should have a bit of a clue about that, wouldn't you reckon, Senator Dodson? He should have a clue about a fact that he's just put on the table. He said, 'Indigenous homelessness has increased.' Perhaps I can point him to a number of articles and statistics that he should inform himself of—after all, this is his shadow portfolio. The number of Indigenous people counted as homeless has fallen by 12.3 per cent in the five years leading up to 2016, and it goes on. I'm not suggesting in any circumstance that that is okay, but to say that it's gone up not down, I think, is something he won't ever be held to account for. Nobody takes him seriously, but I thought I would, again, just correct the record.

There were a couple of other issues. Senator Dodson, you brought up document 19, and I agree, to have an entire document that is redacted you'd think was a bit awkward, but I have it on good advice that this is the process. This process of redaction is by agreement. I will tell you, through the redactions, it was actually a draft letter from your colleague in the Northern Territory government. It was a confidential draft working document that belonged to Gerry McCarthy, the housing minister in the Northern Territory.

Throughout this debate, there may well have been positions put that have not been clearly understood. So let me be absolutely crystal clear: the Commonwealth remains committed to remote housing. But, as for the increase, we want the states and territories to take their place. We want them to take responsibility for their housing. It is entirely their responsibility, and I believe that they have abdicated that responsibility over the entire time of this agreement. I believe that if they are held to account in the way they can be we can get the same outcome that the leadership of the Northern Territory and the federal government have provided for.

What I'm saying about the Northern Territory outcome is that twice as much money will now be invested, twice as much as ever before. That's not a bad bloody outcome. And we have Indigenous people who are standing right there, making sure the administration and all of the other processes in place are actually observed in a transparent way. We have ownership by Aboriginal people and the land council. It is significant reform not only in the amount of money that goes in but in how it is provided. On all of those predictions, we can reach them in half the time if we can build twice as many houses, so this is an outcome that is achievable.

There's been a general theme of: 'I'm very nervous; it's all at the last minute.' But the fact of the matter is that in the Northern Territory, Queensland, Western Australia—the builds that are going on at the moment—the notion that everyone will finish on the 30 June 2018 is a complete nonsense. I'm very much aware of the program. And in Queensland assertions were made that everyone has to finish on the 30 June 2018 by no less than the Queensland local government authority, mostly from North Queensland. I had quite a large contingent come and see me to say they were concerned. I said, 'That's an odd concern to have. I'm not like that. Why would we do that?' They said, 'It was put to us by Minister De Brenni directly that I had written a letter to him saying that everyone has to put pens down on 30 June 2018.' I said, 'There's no such letter, I said no such thing.'

It's pretty disingenuous for people to suggest this program is suddenly ending. There's a large taper. In Queensland it will go on for a long time, 12 months or so in addition to the remaining period of time. And so I am absolutely confident that we'll come to a settlement on where we go in Queensland, Western Australia and in South Australia. The Northern Territory has already got a clear direction where we're going to go, so there's not going to be a hiatus of activity in this particular area.

People have been talking about leadership, particularly about me, and asking why don't I show some leadership? As I have just indicated, you could not ask for a better outcome. I went to the Northern Territory government. They run their budget on an annual basis, unlike the Commonwealth—we run our budget over three-year forward estimates. That is entirely a matter for them. It is just a different way in terms of scale. I am not criticising them for that. They've indicated they're going to put $110 million in a fund, not in their own budget, and I've said that we'll match whatever you put in that fund. They indicated there's one year's funding in the fund and they are going to get back to me about the second year, and I hope to have it on the second year. We'll be matching the funding they put in there. As I have indicated, you can't ask for much more than doubling the investment in some of the most needy parts of Australia. That opportunity is, in fact, available to Western Australia, Queensland and South Australia. As I indicated earlier, I can give some grace to the South Australian government, because they've just been in caretaker mode and they're unable to negotiate through letters—that's just a fact—but it is very important that we continue to make a joint effort.

What I want out of the state and territory governments and what I've asked them to provide—as you'd see by your letter, Senator Dodson—is effectively three things. I think people need to know how many dollars they have provided from their own budgets over the last decade. The Commonwealth are clear: we've invested $5.4 billion. That's been our investment in NPARIH. We've also made some investment through special purpose payments, national partnerships and Commonwealth rent assistance. Commonwealth rent assistance puts it up to about $49 billion or $50 billion in the last decade. Commonwealth rent assistance will take that apart. Whilst it's a huge number, I think we need to set that aside and just look at those funds that were available for investment by the states and territories that were funds given to them. I know that, because we have records of the funds that have been provided to the Queensland government, to the Western Australian government, to the South Australian government and to the Northern Territory government over that period of time.

I want to know how much of their own funds they've provided from their own budgets. I'm talking about 'in remote areas', and that's actually defined. I've asked them if they would provide the number of houses that have been built by them in those areas. I've also asked them: 'How many dollars are from the Commonwealth funds that we provided you for public housing for your most needy?' Between the special purpose payments and the national partnerships on homelessness, over the last decade there's been about $5.5 billion in those specific areas. That's an investment that could've been made to the most needy in those jurisdictions. The most needy live in those remote areas. That $5.5 billion is almost the same as the Commonwealth amount, isn't it, Senator Dodson? Imagine what you could do with that. I've asked them: 'How did you go with that, and how much have you invested?' Western Australia had $1.5 billion of discretionary funds that they could have invested over the last decade, Queensland had $2.6 billion, South Australia had a tad over $1 billion and the Northern Territory had $300,000. That's the discretionary funding that has been allocated over the last decade for investment in public housing. I wanted to know that. I think it's very important we all know that.

It's very important, as we go into the future, that people talk to me. Senator Dodson, you said, 'We need to be serious. We need to be respectful. This needs to be a joint effort. This needs to be a collaboration. This needs to be equally shared.' I agree entirely, which is why we're taking this approach. We've asked them that. I have to say, Queensland has written me back a highly political letter. You would have seen that. It doesn't tell me anything, and it certainly doesn't answer those questions. The most fundamental question, of course, is: how much are you going to put on the table in the future, given what you've just done? I haven't got an answer from Western Australia, but I'm really looking forward to meeting with their minister later this week.

The answers to those are the sorts of questions I think you should be putting to your Minister for Housing in Western Australia. We've had New South Wales take on its own responsibilities. That's it; they're out—they're taking on their own responsibilities. The funds that they get they're now allocating to the most in need, and their remote areas they're going to be able to service. Victoria have taken the same approach. They're going to be servicing those people most in need. Tasmania has said, 'I'm going to take over my responsibilities as a state, and a fundamental responsibility is the provision of public housing.' Yes, the Commonwealth help out in certain ways. We now need the same approach.

I know what the states have been provided. I want to know how much has come out of that. I want the answer to the question, but sadly—through you, Acting Deputy President O'Sullivan, to Senator Dodson—it appears, certainly in Queensland, and I'm looking closely at Western Australia, they haven't provided the answer to the question of how much of that discretionary $2.6 billion did they actually invest? I suspect the answer is zero. It is just depressing to think about why that would be the case. Perhaps because of the colour of someone's skin you would decide that these discretionary funds are not available to an entire demographic because they happen to live in remote areas. I'm not sure of the answers to those questions, Senator Dodson, but I am, as you are, looking forward to them. As I've indicated, I will share the answers in the letters from the jurisdictions with you and other interested parties.

I hope I have dealt with most of the issues that were brought up. People have indicated there is some concern. There were some discussions about outstations and the $40 million, of course, that is going through the ABA, Senator McCarthy. I have been in discussions with all four land councils, as you'd be aware, and we want to ensure that that is rolled out using Indigenous labour and procurement.

I thank everybody for participating in this important debate. It is so important, as Senator Dodson indicates, that this should be a shared responsibility. I think the rolled-gold example is the example of the Northern Territory government. The Northern Territory government have stepped up to the plate. They have been fair dinkum. Yes, they can only do it year by year, but they've indicated that about $110 million a year will be forthcoming. We've indicated that we'll meet that. We've also indicated that it will be separate from the Northern Territory government's budget and that it will be overseen by including the land councils in that. That's a significant move forward. I would encourage the other states to genuinely and openly embrace this opportunity to be part of a future in which your First Australians in your jurisdictions are an absolutely central part of that.

In conclusion, I thank the Senate for the debate, and I look forward to further negotiations with the state and territory jurisdictions.

Question agreed to.