Senate debates

Thursday, 28 June 2018

Bills

National Security Legislation Amendment (Espionage and Foreign Interference) Bill 2018, Foreign Influence Transparency Scheme Bill 2018; In Committee

11:12 am

Photo of Zed SeseljaZed Seselja (ACT, Liberal Party, Assistant Minister for Science, Jobs and Innovation) Share this | Hansard source

Obviously, it's the ordinary meaning of the words—'supervised' versus 'directed'. 'Directed' would be 'taking instructions from'; 'supervised by' would obviously be akin to 'coordinated by' and 'reporting back to'. But, going back to the point you made at the beginning of this particular question, you talked about a WhatsApp message to the foreign minister. There is no prospect that that WhatsApp message would constitute acting in a covert or deceptive way to engage (d) and the other parts of the offence. There is nothing covert about sending a WhatsApp message, just because it's encrypted, when you are lobbying the foreign minister. You are not pretending to be someone you're not, which is the purpose of the offence. The fact that it is encrypted does not make it covert in those circumstances and wouldn't engage the offence under 92.2.

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