Rex Patrick (SA, Centre Alliance) Share this | Hansard source

I see that both the government and the alternative government don't, under any circumstances, want ministers to be subject to any particular security checking. However, I thank the contributors to this debate on the Ministers of State (Checks for Security Purposes) Bill 2019 because it does enliven me to questions and nooks and crannies that will need to be explored in the context of the committee. I do want to address a couple of the points that were raised in the chamber, and I thank people for making their contribution and raising these issues.

Firstly, I do appreciate that the Westminster system is a good system of government. However, to suggest that security checking ministers breaks that down is to just ignore what is happening in Canada. Canada does check its ministers from a security perspective and, indeed, operates under the Westminster system. So I think we can put any concerns in that regard to one side.

The point made by all contributors that ministers are subject to public scrutiny, media scrutiny and parliamentary scrutiny ignores the fact that, when people are being influenced by foreign officials or conducting activities that are not proper, they tend to do that covertly. They don't come into the chamber, they don't do that in sight of the media and they don't do that in the face of public scrutiny. They actually try to do that in secret. Senators would be aware that's especially problematic as our police forces and our intelligence forces are very aware of their responsibilities and the difficulties in watching what a minister may or may not be doing because it causes a considerable difficulty in respect of parliamentary privilege. We have a situation where these activities will not be done in the daylight. To the extent that they are done in secret, for good reasons, we already tie our security forces hands behind their backs. I reject some of the propositions that have been made but appreciate the early notice of the issues that will no doubt be raised in the committee. Thank you.

Debate adjourned.