Matt O'Sullivan (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Hansard source

It gives me great pleasure to stand here and take note of the answers given by Senator Ruston this afternoon on the cashless debit card. It's no secret to those in this place that I've been involved with the cashless debit card since before it was even an idea that the government was considering, because I was part of the Minderoo Foundation, and it was an idea that came out of the Forrest review, based on consultation with people in communities across Australia—in particular, the trial communities that were first initiated through the cashless debit card: the communities of Ceduna in South Australia, and Kununurra and Wyndham in the East Kimberley. What we heard from people up there was the need for a circuit-breaker to help these communities deal with the very devastating effects of chronic alcohol and drug abuse. People come into this place—and I have been listening to the debate on this topic today—and speak of many different things about the card. They say, 'The people in these communities actually don't really even know what it is that they're wanting; they wouldn't actually know what would be good for them.' That's essentially what they're coming in here and saying. Frankly, it is probably the height of paternalism to say that to people in the communities that have the cashless debit card, that actually want the cashless debit card, that called on it in the first place to help them deal with some of the issues. None of them ever thought that it would be the solution to all of their problems—none of them. What they wanted was a circuit-breaker to help them deal with the challenges that they were facing as a community. This government has been supporting those communities in that endeavour, and it is demonstrating success across those communities.

I want to deal with some facts, because there haven't been a lot of facts brought out. There have been a lot of feelings brought out, but not a lot of facts. The cashless debit card is a Visa card. It works like a Visa card that any other bank customer in Australia would have, with two exceptions: that card cannot be used at liquor stores or pubs and it can't be taken to an ATM to withdraw cash. It will work at the 900,000 merchants that have signed on that have an EFTPOS machine operating in their retail outlet. It also works online. You can pay your bills online. You can, actually, buy second-hand furniture because you can use things like PayPal. You can link your card to those sorts of services to be able to pay for things.

Throughout COVID, we have seen a dramatic acceleration in the use of contactless payments. More and more, Australians are going about their days using contactless payments, cashless payments, all the time. In fact, many people will say that they have cash in their wallet but it's something they don't even go to use any more. It used to be the case that you almost felt guilty using your card to buy a $4 or $5 coffee, because it was an inconvenience to the retailer. But now it's commonly accepted. The cashless debit card is operating on the Visa platform and works just like any other card. It just won't work at a liquor store. But, if somebody does want to buy alcohol, to enjoy a drink for a celebration or with friends over a meal, over dinner, they can, because there is 20 per cent that's available through their standard bank account. Lots of feelings are given as evidence from the other side of this chamber, but not a lot of facts have actually been brought out here today.

I often speak about the impacts on the ground and I'm told, 'Well, they're just anecdotes that are being used.' When you talk to Foodland in South Australia, in Ceduna, they say they're now selling more fresh fruit and vegetables and have actually got less theft, less shoplifting, happening in their store. Yet those opposite say we can't use that because it's just an anecdote. But all the anecdotes about people feeling stigmatised, people feeling targeted, are somehow more acceptable than the senior sergeant of police in Kununurra saying that this card is actually having a very positive effect— (Time expired)