David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Special Minister of State (Senator Farrell) to a question without notice I asked today relating to the Virginia class submarines.

Rarely do you see a special minister of state with so little knowledge about a core matter of public debate. When asked about the growing opposition in the United States Congress to any legislation that would allow Australia to get even one Virginia class submarine—and remember the AUKUS pillar 1, not 2 or 3, is that the US will start supplying hand over to Australia—no doubt for billions of dollars—Virginia class submarines from 2030. That is how the AUKUS plan fills the capability gap when the Collins class submarines go out of service and we transition to this mythical, UK-built AUKUS nuclear powered submarine. Critical to that is Australia getting access to three, and possibly five, Virginia class nuclear attack submarines.

The problem with that is that Australia might have a neat little agreement with President Biden but there is no agreement with Congress. And the US, somewhat unlike Australia, gives an important role to their parliament in defence matters. One of those critical roles is approving any export of critical US defence technology such as the Virginia class submarines. The Special Minister of State seemed to be ignorant of the requirement to get congressional approval, saying: 'But we've got an agreement with Joe Biden. We signed it. It should all be sweet. We've given them $3 billion to build their industrial base! It should all be sweet. We've got $368 billion that we're stripping out of climate action, schools and hospitals. It should all be sweet.' He's failing to understand the most basic fact that it's not sweet. The United States Congress has to approve it, and congress hasn't approved it, and—get this—there has been a growing insurrection in the congress about giving us any.

What did one of those US senators say in the last week? US Senator Bill Hagerty said: 'The Biden administration still hasn't put forward a credible, long-term plan to ensure that our navy'—meaning the US Navy—'meets its requirements to have 66 attack subs in a reasonable time frame.' To directly quote Senator Bill Hagerty: 'Ladies and gentlemen, that's a problem.' A colleague of his, Senator Roger Wicker, said this about the proposal to hand over AUKUS submarines to Australia: 'It makes sense to be sure that we'—meaning the US—'have enough submarines for our own security needs before we endorse that pillar of the agreement.' Of course, that's pillar 1 of the AUKUS agreement that the Albanese government and the Special Minister for State think is all sorted. Senator Wicker is on the US Senate Committee on Armed Services—I think he's the ranking member of the committee—and he then said, 'The president needs to submit a supplemental request to give us an adequate number of submarines.' He couldn't say how much money was needed, but he said the $3 billion that's already been shelled out by Australian taxpayers to build the US industrial base—not a single dollar of that is going to Australian jobs. The $3 billion dollars is already promised to the US administration to create US jobs in their shipbuilding industry to expand their submarine construction capacity. Senator Wicker said that he doesn't know how much more money is required to sort the problem out, but he does know that the $3 billion Australia has given is nowhere near enough. Senator Wicker went on to say: 'We need a concrete plan that includes not only the authorisation and money for an adequate number of attack submarines, but a plan for the industrial base to actually get there.' There is no plan.

Why is it that the US are so anxious about giving Australia any of these Virginia class submarines on the 2030s? It's because they're going to hit a capability valley just then—in the 2030s. That's when a bunch of their earlier Virginia class submarines are going to be coming out of service. A bunch of them were built with substandard steel, and they've got a shorter time of life. It was a problem. That's when a bunch of the Virginia class submarines are going to be coming out of service, but it's also when the production limits are going to be hit. There's no plan, no solution and billions spent.

Question agreed to.