Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Trade) Share this | Hansard source

I would say at the outset that the government won't be supporting the proposition that's been advanced by Senator Shoebridge and Senator Cox, but I do think that it is good that these questions are brought here and that it is elevated to be the subject of discussion here. I do think that senators ought to spend some time on these questions. So, while we may not agree on our voting positions in relation to the proposition that has been advanced—and I want to make some comments about the government's broader approach here—I want there to be more discussion about these questions in this place. We should not be frightened of the debate.

Before I make my other comments, I do want to say that, while I didn't know Ms Trevitt, I was aware of her contribution. There are many people in the community of lawyers and there are many community activists who receive very little reward in terms of what they get paid, but there's an immense reward in terms of what they contribute and the sense of purpose that they bring to these questions. She was a leader amongst them, and her death was a very sad thing for that community of lawyers. You can't imagine the countless young people who that young woman would have supported.

It is true that every child—and somebody who is 10, 11, 12, 13 or 14 is a child—who is imprisoned represents a failure of all of us, not them. Let's leave it to the courts to sort out who's responsible for what and the levels of attributing personal responsibility—that's not what I mean. I mean, in terms of the social outcome here, there are very few good outcomes that flow from people who are imprisoned and particularly from young people who are imprisoned. We know that the outcomes from that are—there are people in the justice system who work very hard to try to get better outcomes. I'm thinking of workers in the technical education system, in TAFE, in New South Wales who work very hard to support young people in those institutions. But there are some pretty ordinary outcomes for young people. Too many of those young people are from an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander background. That is also the case. So the impact on that community and the impact that flows through the generations in that community is, of course, something that we should spend more time talking about in this place.

From the government's perspective, the Attorney-General and others will be engaging and listening and considering the direction of further reform in an area that's going to require a continued focus on reform and cooperation with the Attorney's colleagues at the state and territory level. I can say, on behalf of the government, that the government is committed to achieving targets 10 and 11 of the National Agreement on Closing the Gap, which do go to these questions: reducing the rate of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander young people in detention by at least 30 per cent by 2031 and reducing the rate of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander adult incarceration by 15 per cent by 2031.

The government committed $13½ million dollars in additional funding to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services to increase those important organisations' capacity to provide culturally-appropriate legal assistance in coronial inquiries and to establish real-time reporting of all deaths in custody to ensure accountability and transparency for all Australian governments. And it committed an unprecedented investment of $81½ million to establish a National Justice Reinvestment Program.

I do want to say in terms of the principles around justice reinvestment that the opportunities there are place based, regionally specific and culturally appropriate to deliver those services. I'm very proud of the government's investment in those services. Two pilots have been funded in Australia; they will have an impact and there will be lessons that can be learned from the application of those programs. I know this myself from my experience in watching, with awe, really, the leadership of people like Alistair Ferguson in Bourke with the Maranguka Justice Reinvestment Project there. That has had such a positive impact in the community. Every morning, representatives of the Aboriginal community in Bourke—of the Maranguka Tribal Council, in which Mr Ferguson has played a key role in bringing together; of the police and other emergency services; of housing services; and of the various health groups and schools all come together, voluntarily, in a program where they sort through and work out problems and issues that confront individual families and questions that deal with justice related issues.

And what have they produced? They do it every morning and every day they solve problems—five or six mornings a week. Week after week they do work that nobody ever sees outside that community, but they put the time in. And what do we see? That investment up front is supported, yes, by governments and also by some of the philanthropic organisations which are keen to support ways of improving justice outcomes for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities in regional Australia. It means that we see reduced reoffending. Putting the resources up-front is not just the right thing to do it's the economically rational thing to do. We get better outcomes in terms of lower spending, because it costs a lot of money to lock people up. We get a better outcome because there's less expense there, but the expenditure is produces a better outcome—a better outcome for the young people, in particular, and for their families. There's a better outcome in terms of domestic violence and all the other things that are associated with criminal offending. And there are better outcomes for the community in that town.

I know that it has been the subject of some controversy. I was disappointed to see that there was some recent criticism of it because, of course, the figures don't always improve. Sometimes they get worse because there's an ebb and flow in the kinds of things that drive criminal offending—all of the impacts that happen in communities. The lesson that I have learnt from watching is that, firstly, it's people like Ms Trevitt and Mr Ferguson, and thousands and thousands of others who put their heart and soul into these things, that make a difference. The second thing is that the approach by government matters—it really matters. Less sloganeering and more effort: really, people out in that community don't have much time for slogans.

The third thing is that we get better outcomes if we work together in those communities, accept responsibility and accept that, sometimes, things won't go perfectly. When you get a bad outcome, rather than point the finger and try and score points, what you do is rally around and try and work out how to get a better outcome. That is the kind of approach that the government will take. The government will work with all of the state and territory governments, and there is some dissonance and difference there. Senator Shoebridge has pointed to some of those issues. There are differences between the state governments. The government will work with the state governments to deliver a better outcome. All of those forums—the Standing Council of Attorneys-General, the Police Ministers Council and the Justice Policy Partnership—working with First Nations groups and representatives from the Coalition of Peaks is what will characterise the approach of the government in this area.