David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Hansard source

The problem with your answer is that it doesn't address the question. What the higher education sector and industry have said is, 'Sure, we may not need a permit for the modest amount of work we do with the United States and the UK, but we'll absolutely need a permit every time we collaborate with India, every time we collaborate with Taiwan, every time we collaborate with Indonesia, every time we collaborate with Belgium and every time we collaborate with Germany.' I could go on—it's the rest of the world. Every time they get a research scientist who's not from within the bubble, every time they want to collaborate and share research on anything that might touch upon national security with any other part of the world, they're going to need a permit under the legislation. The higher education sector and industry have said that that's possibly tens of thousands of permits a year. Mr Nockels, in evidence that no-one could believe, said that it was dozens. Surely the government has a better answer than what it gave on notice, which was:

The Impact Analysis acknowledges that some of the data obtained to inform the analysis cannot be released publicly due to the security classification of the information and the permitted legal reasons for using the data.

How many, Minister?