David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Hansard source

Minister, to be ITAR compliant and to allow for the free trade and the free flow of military secrets from the United States to Australian and from Australia to the United States, the United States have said that we have to set up a system that secures information on shore. If they're going to share their military secrets with us, the United States have said, 'We need the controls so that those secrets won't be shared with the rest of the world.' That's the whole purpose of the bill.

To do that, researchers and industry are required to get a whole bunch of permits and approvals if they're going to do research with foreign students or foreign collaborators outside of the bubble. The higher education sector and industry have said that involves possibly tens of thousands of permits, which would be a real burden on their industry and a real problem. Mr Nockels, in extraordinary evidence on behalf of Defence, said it would only be dozens of permits. I'm asking you again, do you have a number? It can't be what Mr Nockels says; otherwise, you're not compliant with the US ITAR requirements, which is what's driving this whole bill. Surely you have a number?